The International Simutrans Forum

 

Author Topic: No transfer at overcrowded stations.  (Read 12632 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline skreyola

  • *
  • Posts: 337
  • Trivial Troubleshooter
Re: No transfer at overcrowded stations.
« Reply #35 on: August 03, 2010, 01:47:29 AM »
I took tolerance to mean something like "margin of error" or "maximum detour", given the way it was worded by the OP.
That is, if the ideal route (over a crowded station) is not available, how far out of his way with simuzen Bob go to reach his destination before deciding he won't go at all?
If the ideal route is two legs totaling 50km, but the alternate route is two legs, one 30km and the other 40km, will Bob make the trip or not? (I'm picturing here something like a right triangle).

Offline jamespetts gb

  • Simutrans-Extended project coordinator
  • Devotee
  • *
  • Posts: 18752
  • Cake baker
    • Bridgewater-Brunel
  • Languages: EN
Re: No transfer at overcrowded stations.
« Reply #36 on: August 03, 2010, 08:25:41 AM »
Wouldn't it make sense to determine that in terms of journey time, not distance?

Offline skreyola

  • *
  • Posts: 337
  • Trivial Troubleshooter
Re: No transfer at overcrowded stations.
« Reply #37 on: August 03, 2010, 07:31:55 PM »
Logically, yes... but IRL, people will often look at the mileage even if the speed is faster. That is, "I'm not going way out there to get to this place". Anyway, if you make it by time, I think it won't help.
They're already trying to go through the (theoretically) fastest station. That's why it's overcrowded. But the distance would enable you to stop looking at a route if it's over so much more than the original.
Am I wrong?

Anyway, I'm talking about what I think was meant by tolerance, not necessarily what is the best overall system.

Offline jamespetts gb

  • Simutrans-Extended project coordinator
  • Devotee
  • *
  • Posts: 18752
  • Cake baker
    • Bridgewater-Brunel
  • Languages: EN
Re: No transfer at overcrowded stations.
« Reply #38 on: August 03, 2010, 10:41:22 PM »
In reality, don't people look at timetables? Certainly, in the UK there is a website with railway timetables that will automatically calculate the fastest route between any given origin and destination station in the UK. In London, there is a website that will do that for all locations and all forms of transport, from trains to boats or walking. These sites tend to be used quite heavily. Furthermore, people often rely on schematic maps provided by transport companies that do not accurately show relative distances.

Offline skreyola

  • *
  • Posts: 337
  • Trivial Troubleshooter
Re: No transfer at overcrowded stations.
« Reply #39 on: August 04, 2010, 02:34:01 AM »
Timetables are one thing, but imagine if you were going from Jacksonville, FL, to Austin Texas. If the straight line were crowded and took longer, would you really want to go on a slightly faster train that went by way of Orlando? (or from Berlin to Warsaw by way of Rome?)

Offline Fabio

  • Devotee
  • Administrator
  • *
  • Posts: 2898
  • The Pak128 Guy
    • Visit me on Facebook
  • Languages: EN, IT, RO, FR
Re: No transfer at overcrowded stations.
« Reply #40 on: August 04, 2010, 06:52:51 AM »
Timetables are one thing, but imagine if you were going from Jacksonville, FL, to Austin Texas. If the straight line were crowded and took longer, would you really want to go on a slightly faster train that went by way of Orlando? (or from Berlin to Warsaw by way of Rome?)

It depends on the journey time: sure not by train or bus/car, possibly by plane.
Also, better a 200 km distance by high speed train than 150 km by local train.

Offline jamespetts gb

  • Simutrans-Extended project coordinator
  • Devotee
  • *
  • Posts: 18752
  • Cake baker
    • Bridgewater-Brunel
  • Languages: EN
Re: No transfer at overcrowded stations.
« Reply #41 on: August 04, 2010, 09:05:27 AM »
Timetables are one thing, but imagine if you were going from Jacksonville, FL, to Austin Texas. If the straight line were crowded and took longer, would you really want to go on a slightly faster train that went by way of Orlando? (or from Berlin to Warsaw by way of Rome?)

Not if it took longer, as such an immense detour inevitably would.

Offline colonyan

  • Devotee
  • *
  • Posts: 526
  • Full and Warm
Re: No transfer at overcrowded stations.
« Reply #42 on: August 04, 2010, 06:59:54 PM »
How about make detour some temporary/irregular event?
There are always people active enough to search the alternative.
Maybe say X% of passenger could use other route if one or more
of his original transfers was full?
This disregarding the inefficiency of the alternative.
Lets suppose they are desperate to get to their destination.
Although, I kind of can feel coders doesn't like this kind of irregular
approach.

Offline Dwachs

  • DevTeam, Coder/patcher
  • Administrator
  • *
  • Posts: 4607
  • Languages: EN, DE, AT
Re: No transfer at overcrowded stations.
« Reply #43 on: August 05, 2010, 05:11:07 AM »
Is there a volunteer out there, who would like to start porting the simutrans-experimental routing of goods back to standard?

Offline prissi

  • Developer
  • Administrator
  • *
  • Posts: 9583
  • Languages: De,EN,JP
Re: No transfer at overcrowded stations.
« Reply #44 on: August 05, 2010, 10:18:15 AM »
Routing of goods in standard does already competition. Two AI (or you and an AI) can compete for goods.

Same works for passengers at busy stops. A single bus stop in later game overcrowds fast and passengers will seek new connections soon.

What is probably needed is more caching especially for large games (with some lookup table caching already found routes, filling gradually) and an advanced route search. The simutrans-experimental approach is too complex with way too many parameters for me. Also there seems to be memory leak(s), the memory consumption of the routing is increasing and increasing during tests with SE.