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Offline Václav

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New chains ideas
« on: October 13, 2008, 10:56:59 AM »
So here are else my ideas for new industry chains. Here it is for those people who don't understand czech (original diagrams you can find in czech topic "Nové průmysly pro pak128").

As I wrote in British industry set:

green marked factories are already existing
yellow marked ones are factories from other my ideas
white marked ones are unique for that chain

Goods and chains names can be changed if it would be needed

Part I:

Aluminium chain:
1. graphite (it is not exact but for game it could be fine)
2. other raws (something like catalysators)
3. bauxite

Planes chain:
1. steel
2. aluminium
3. plastics
4. planes

Heavy chemistry chain:
1. gas (different from gas used in drinks chain called in British industry chain)
2. non-iron metals (excepting aluminium what is producted alone)
3. oxygen

Wastes recycling chain:

2. wastes
1. metallic wastes
3. graphite
« Last Edit: October 13, 2008, 11:08:02 AM by VaclavMacurek »

Offline vilvoh

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Re: New chains ideas
« Reply #1 on: October 13, 2008, 11:13:57 AM »
The last one is quite similar to an idea I had for a new industry chain I'm working on (Recycling chain) Basically, the player collects solid waste (known as Urban Solid Waste) from Recycling points and transports it to the Recycling plant, that produces an small amount of paper, plastic and iron ore/steel.

It introduces new challenges for the player, and it's a way to have some "manufactured" goods in case some parts of other chains do not appear in the map. Another strong point is that just adding a Biomass powerplant, you can guide the chain to energy production, so you have both options (comercial and energetic)
« Last Edit: October 13, 2008, 11:38:16 AM by vilvoh »

Offline Václav

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Re: New chains ideas
« Reply #2 on: October 13, 2008, 11:24:23 AM »
Yes, I planned from WRU other wastes transporting to existing waste incinerator to produce energy - but your idea of biomass incinerator could be added

in case of products of WRU I planned only two products - metals and other wastes - but if somebody add something more, it will be much better

Part II (more chains):

Gas chain (here I am sorry for using name of one company instead common name for one factory):

1. Coal
2. Oxygen

Products of gas chain are:

sulphur (it is used in one another chain I will introduce soon)
graphite
carbon dioxide
gas (town gas, lighting gas - I am not sure with exact name for this)

Pharmaceutical chain (one version is available for japanese paks and pak64 - but this one is much wider and more diffiicult - but also more close to real world)

1,3,6: plastics (chemicals)
2: Herbals
4: fruit
5: drugs, medicines
7: vitamins
« Last Edit: October 13, 2008, 11:29:29 AM by VaclavMacurek »

Offline Zeno

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Re: New chains ideas
« Reply #3 on: October 13, 2008, 11:43:31 AM »
All this is great! The only "but" is that I can't get the idea of a Plane seller... I think it would be better to use steel & aluminium to build other things than planes; the idea of a a plane shop is overcoming me; I'm sorry but I can't get to it. What about a household shop instead?

Offline vilvoh

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Re: New chains ideas
« Reply #4 on: October 13, 2008, 11:49:53 AM »
Why do you need to produce CO2 (carbon dioxide) in the gas chain? What are you going to use it for?

BTW, the recycling chain could produce metane (due to waste combustion) to be consumed by the biomass powerplant/incinerator...

Offline Václav

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Re: New chains ideas
« Reply #5 on: October 14, 2008, 08:18:25 AM »
CO2 is used in drinks chain - for it look in topic British industry set.
Sulphur is used in weapons chain.

Here are products as they are hidden behind those numbers:

1: sulphur
2: coal
3: fertilizer (like source of nitrogen)
4,5: steel
6: ammo
7: weapons

And here is one another chain (I call it offices small equipment but quite else name could be chosen)

1: graphite
2: steel
3: wood
4: plastics
5: pens, pencils
6: glue
7: paper

Offline Václav

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Re: New chains ideas
« Reply #6 on: October 14, 2008, 08:25:36 AM »
I think it would be better to use steel & aluminium to build other things than planes

For example? Household could be good but I think more categories are needed. I think too much goods are transported under "crate goods".

Offline vilvoh

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Re: New chains ideas
« Reply #7 on: October 14, 2008, 08:41:28 AM »
Although I like some of your ideas, I think you should simplify a bit some chains, specially those ones where in intermediate or final stages, you need more than two goods to produce another one. If you create a lot of dependecies, and any of the elements does not appear, the whole chain won't be playable. How many times have you "feed" the concrete factory but the cement factory is not present so the chain is not productive? You have to develop the area where factory is and wait until the cement factory is built.

imho, you can avoid that making them more simple. Not more than 4 or 5 elements, and not more than 2 links to the same element. Perhaps you can join two factories on one (gasworks+air products)

Sulphur is used in weapons chain.
Back again to this polemic issue.. ::)

« Last Edit: October 14, 2008, 08:51:06 AM by vilvoh »

Offline Zeno

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Re: New chains ideas
« Reply #8 on: October 14, 2008, 08:56:23 AM »
I agree with vilvoh... raw materials -> refining -> factory -> consumer is the most complex chain I would do. I think anything else would complicate things too much.

About weapons chain... it's been discussed so many times... no comments  ;)

And about aluminium: it's basically used as metal alloy for planes, ships, cars, etc.; to make windows/doors; household; tools and hardware (could be nice a hardware store); other complex refining and chemical processes for industry (discarded). Anyway, new wagons/vehicles could be done for this even it's in the same crate goods category... :D

Offline vilvoh

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Re: New chains ideas
« Reply #9 on: October 14, 2008, 09:08:48 AM »
As I see it, the aluminium chain may have several final consumers inside and outside the cities, in addition to the aluminium works:
  • Construction / Materials wholesales: you have two options; modify the existing one to make it accept aluminium as input good or create a new one.
  • Car factory: the same situation as mentioned above. In fact, nowadays, some parts of cars are made of aluminium.
  • Heavy machinery
  • Hardware warehouse

It's a simple chain with a lot of posibilities... :)
« Last Edit: October 14, 2008, 03:39:30 PM by vilvoh »

Offline Václav

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Re: New chains ideas
« Reply #10 on: October 14, 2008, 09:16:41 AM »
I know some ones may be too much complicated. For uniting gasworks and airproducts I say this: I planned some other uses for air products (if I remember right, I wanted to use it as one supply factory for weapons chain), so for it that is alone. But you are right it is useless if I used chicken farm instead it.

some parts of cars are made of aluminium - I know but if once that chain is complete (in spite of new car seller building was added), it is not needed to change it for this time. But one thing is right: aluminium chain could support great many other chains (like glass or oil refining).

Material wholesales: I am not sure what do you think.

BTW: I am sorry for those difficulties because I have studied chemistry for six years on one czech high school of chemistry and so I think only between borders of my education (in spite of I left school five years ago) - and one thing is much more important: I am perfectionist and so I try to make it so close to real world as it is possible (in borders of game) sometimes.
« Last Edit: October 14, 2008, 09:36:05 AM by VaclavMacurek »

Offline vilvoh

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Re: New chains ideas
« Reply #11 on: October 14, 2008, 09:28:16 AM »
We have realized about it... ;)

Offline Václav

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Re: New chains ideas
« Reply #12 on: November 03, 2008, 09:57:34 AM »
you need more than two goods to produce another one.

within or only more than? I tried to set raws needed to the lowest but some times it is hard.

Not more than 4 or 5 elements, and not more than 2 links to the same element

Elements as factories? If you complete some chains from subchains (for example ?factory, electronics production and clothes for trade center), then you get more then five elements (factories) in chain.

more than two links for same element: contract between Apothecary's and refinery can be erased. But in else chains it could be very difficult.

Perhaps you can join two factories on one (gasworks+air products)

Originally I planned to some other uses for air products. So for that it is separated.

And by the way: why weapons chain was marked as deprecated? (I noticed something like that)
« Last Edit: November 03, 2008, 10:35:15 AM by VaclavMacurek »

Offline emaxectranspoorte

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Re: New chains ideas
« Reply #13 on: December 17, 2008, 11:38:04 PM »
It's a bit hard to program for me this and also I proposed too many things to do, I think ::) :)

So I have taken it from here. I apologize if this offended anyone. :-\ :-\ :-\
« Last Edit: December 30, 2008, 08:48:51 AM by emaxectranspoorte »

Offline Václav

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Re: New chains ideas
« Reply #14 on: December 18, 2008, 02:06:55 PM »
Recently (and I called it in czech written topic, for information for czech speaking people) I found mainly chain Offices small equipment I made too difficult (too spread) - I will divide writing equipment factory into two (or more) factories - the first wïll produce only classical wooden pencils, other one will/can produce T-squares
()
or pens or something like that.
« Last Edit: December 18, 2008, 02:15:40 PM by VaclavMacurek »

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Re: New chains ideas
« Reply #15 on: April 02, 2009, 02:03:34 PM »
Someone mentioned an airplane manufacturing chain. Wouldn't it be better with a car manufacturing chain? Or that is already included?

Offline ariarinen

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Re: New chains ideas
« Reply #16 on: April 02, 2009, 05:06:02 PM »
Someone mentioned an airplane manufacturing chain. Wouldn't it be better with a car manufacturing chain? Or that is already included?

Its already included.

How about yacht manufacturing chain or heavy machinery chain

Offline Václav

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Re: New chains ideas
« Reply #17 on: April 03, 2009, 07:56:45 AM »
Heavy machinery chain development was started in czech topic Nové průmysly but all what have been done is prototype of final (assembling) factory. Prototype of aluminium smelting factory (could be seen in that topic too - it is building with name BudovaHlinikarny) I did I don't like because it is very awful in my eyes (regardless of I recoloured it for usage like very big railstation terminal extension).
« Last Edit: April 06, 2009, 08:35:47 AM by VaclavMacurek »

Offline Mac_#71

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Re: New chains ideas
« Reply #18 on: May 10, 2009, 02:32:12 PM »
I was thinking ... I know that has been repeatedly discussed, but why not create a chain of nuclear energy?

Uranium ore mine--->Enrichment plant--->Nuclear plant--->Nuclear waste storage plant
(creating also convoys for uranium ore, fuel rods, and flasks)

Offline PkK

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Re: New chains ideas
« Reply #19 on: May 10, 2009, 06:57:47 PM »
I was thinking ... I know that has been repeatedly discussed, but why not create a chain of nuclear energy?

Uranium ore mine--->Enrichment plant--->Nuclear plant--->Nuclear waste storage plant
(creating also convoys for uranium ore, fuel rods, and flasks)

I don't think that would make a good chain: Compared to the other chains (like coal fired power station) the amount of goods transported per time is much, much lower. It would take decades for a single power station to produce enough waste for a single train.

Philipp

Offline Isaac.Eiland-Hall us

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Re: New chains ideas
« Reply #20 on: May 10, 2009, 10:05:26 PM »
For the sake of simulation, the amount of waste might well assume to be much more, q.v. Railroad Tycoon II. :-)

It could still be somewhat low... :)

Offline leopard

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Re: New chains ideas
« Reply #21 on: May 16, 2009, 11:00:16 PM »
Gas works?

inputs coal, produces tar as a waste.

essentially treat as a power station, that produces no power, but in inside cities as opposed to outside (making getting the coal in interesting)

need something to use the tar, or dispose of it.


Smokeless Fuels plant
again takes coal in, no specific output, inless you want to sell the resulting product in small shops


Also have an idea for an acetate works (chemical works) chain, but its big, and until I can draw at least the buildings I'm keeping quiet.

Offline dantedarkstar

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Re: New chains ideas
« Reply #22 on: June 04, 2009, 09:22:13 PM »
Recently I had idea od Copper production chain, that would be fed to electronics factory (instead of Steel). I would also incorporate Acid production (used in Copper mining and perhaps somewhere else in industry).


Chains/Parts:
*Sulfur Mine* -> Sulfur (100%)
Sulfur (32%) -> *Acid Plant* -> Acid (100%)

Acid (20%) -> *Copper Mine* -> Copper Ore (100%)
Copper Ore (400%) + Coal (100%) -> *Copper Mill* -> Copper(100%)

Freights:
Sulfur : Bulk good
Acid : Fluid good ? (although transporting acid and milk in same car is a bit weird)
Copper : Special Freight (could a category for Metals be made so that both Steel and Copper could be transported by same cars ?)


Then substitute Steel for Copper in Electronics Factory
Also, the Acid could be used in some other factory chains (can't remember all the chains right now). I know Sulfuric Acid is used majorly in phosphate fertilizers production (actually, to get phosphoric acid)).

The large % for Copper Ore used in Copper Mill is because copper ores are always very poor. The ores are concentrated in the mines to get Concentrate that has 20%-30% Copper, and this is the "ore" that actually gets transported to mills for further processing.
The Acid is required for Copper Mine preprocessing to get the Concentrate.


Maybe I'll get to making these chains, but for now I started remaking industries in pak128 that need new graphics (due to pak128 trying to become open source). So Copper and Acid production will have to wait.

Offline Václav

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Re: New chains ideas
« Reply #23 on: June 11, 2009, 09:52:42 AM »
Gas works?
produces tar as a waste.

No tar, tar as waste is acceptable as waste in petrochemical factories (actually refinery) where it is very heavy part of raw oil what remains after separation of hydrocarbons between methane and hexadecane within (parts of fuels for cars and planes).

Gas works produces as waste almost only carbon black (carbon in powder form), carbon dioxide (CO2), ammonia (NH3) and hydrogen sulfide (H2S).

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Re: New chains ideas
« Reply #24 on: June 14, 2009, 03:36:57 PM »
I like the Plane chain you posted

Planes chain:
1. steel
2. aluminium
3. plastics
4. planes

It could easily be simplified by removing the end.  Most places that assemble aircraft have their own runway, you don't need an aircraft seller, the planes fly to the customers.  Or if you want to transport the planes, you'd be better off with helicopters since they'd fit on a train or truck, the only problem with that is they weren't around in 1930.

I was thinking about airports as gas stations since airplains go through a lot more fuel than cars, but this has the problem of the player directly creating demand, and the map could easily not have the refineries for a large air network.