The International Simutrans Forum

 

Author Topic: svn with free material for pak64  (Read 12552 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline rainer

  • SMSC winner
  • *
  • Posts: 100
svn with free material for pak64
« on: October 29, 2010, 10:02:44 AM »
Hi folks!

After all that years with Simutrans, last Friday I got an attack.
I started to pixel. Hm. The Friday evening went to be _very_
long. The entire weekend was filled with pixels. When sleeping
some hours, I dreamed of Gimp.

It was my persuasion that the result will be hm... "suboptimal",
but obviously, some things seems to be usable.

I published the work under GPLv3, for to ensure that it will
stay on being free, regardless of any personal trouble which
might occur.

Paco_m added some old trams. Vilvoh agreed in publishing all
his artwork under GPLv3.

svn://svn.domainforge.de/simutrans/

After just 7 days the svn consists of 316 .pak, 57 .dat, 125 .png
with 572 objects. And there is still enough data in the pipe.

Feel free to use it, to share it, to improve it, and to redistribute
it, but accept the license conditions. This means at first to keep
it under that license when redistributing it.

The result is still in a very early stage. For sure some things are
ugly, incomplete, buggy and might not work.  Feel free to claim
bugs! Fell free to send me improved version! (Yes, you will be
mentioned as author as well.)

I would like to take the opportunity to encourage others to join.
All I need directly from the author are .dat and .png or URLs
pointing to them and the author's clearly documented intention to
publish the artwork under GPLv3.

For the moment everything is reduced to pak64, but that's not
for eternity. Later I will think about other ways of publishing,
fitting the needs of people without svn client.

Question:

As the project seems to escalate somehow, this is the time to
think about a proper file hierarchy. Everything in just one directory
seems to be unsufficient. As I learned from others, the .dat and
.png are sorted in different ways in pak64 and openpak128.

Pak maintainers: What is your suggestion for sorting .dat and .png?

Offline Dwachs

  • DevTeam, Coder/patcher
  • Administrator
  • *
  • Posts: 4587
  • Languages: EN, DE, AT
Re: svn with free material for pak64
« Reply #1 on: October 29, 2010, 10:20:22 AM »
Very impressive!

Some of the material seems to be published already (vilvoh's images), some not. Maybe you can show some picture etc of new material?

And some bug report:
Quote from:
steamtramway.dat
# ignore wrong information at depot, the lok + 2 wagons actually fit in a 1 tile station
This is right, however such a convoi is not able to clear track reservations after the station. See picture. This might be unwanted. The display in the depot window actually accounts for this needed extra tile.

Offline rainer

  • SMSC winner
  • *
  • Posts: 100
Re: svn with free material for pak64
« Reply #2 on: October 29, 2010, 10:32:23 AM »
Quote
Maybe you can show some picture etc of new material?

I haven't sorted things by this criteria, as the definition of "new" will change every day. ; - )

Yes, everything from Vilvoh was published somewhere else before.
I just invented "speaking" names for better overview.

Mine and Pacos objects are all new. Search for:
vehicle.DB*pak
vehicle.SNCF*pak
vehicle.SNCB*pak
vehicle.CFL*pak
vehilcle.*tram*pak

(Don't know whether the list is complete)
« Last Edit: October 29, 2010, 10:36:56 AM by vilvoh »

Offline vilvoh

  • One of the good guys
  • Administrator (Inactive)
  • *
  • Posts: 4504
  • I'm the constructor, the architect
    • Escala real
Re: svn with free material for pak64
« Reply #3 on: October 29, 2010, 10:42:40 AM »
That's right, most of my graphic stuff is available at graphics.simutrans.com but there aren't any dat files. In addition to dat, sometimes the stuff uploaded at g.s.c are pre-releases and the idea of the svn is to have definitive versions.

Offline rainer

  • SMSC winner
  • *
  • Posts: 100
Re: svn with free material for pak64
« Reply #4 on: October 29, 2010, 10:47:17 AM »
I have to apologise for having forgotten something very important:

I would like to thank Penny, a coworker, admin and Simutrans player wholeheartely! He is hosting the SVN on his server. Many thanks, Penny,
for your extremely useful support!

Offline VS

  • Senior Plumber (Devotee)
  • Devotee
  • *
  • Posts: 4855
  • Vladimír Slávik
    • VS's Simutrans site
  • Languages: CS,EN
Re: svn with free material for pak64
« Reply #5 on: October 29, 2010, 10:57:44 AM »
As I see it... The directory structure could be objtype/project. So, ways, houses, stations, vehicles... and inside eg. "Vilvoh's citycars".

Why: You have three dimensions across which you can group objects: author, package/project, type. I think in most cases the former two can be collapsed. And since most packages include related object types, you could have the top level sorted by that...

Just one data point though :)

Offline rainer

  • SMSC winner
  • *
  • Posts: 100
Re: svn with free material for pak64
« Reply #6 on: October 29, 2010, 11:34:12 AM »
Quote
So, ways, houses, stations, vehicles...

This is obvious so far. But should on a second level i.e. vehicles be divided by
track, road, air, etc? Then, on a third level by kind of transported $things?

Quote
You have three dimensions across which you can group objects: author, package/project, type.

(What do you mean by "package/project"?)

We have more possible criterias. We should think like users, who
are searching for something - on a second glance like maintainers,
to ease their work.

- introduction years (locomotives by epoche, i.E.)
- countries (i.e. where the vehicles were produced or used, or the
  architecture of buildings)
- freight
- vehicles by speed/power

"Author" is unimportant, seen with the eyes of users. They will most
likely search by every other criteria. Who will search for objects
build by a special author to intergrate them in the game?

My aim is to answer almost all possible questions by an intuitive
naming of directories and files. If there is no standard at Simutrans
yet, fine with me. I hope to find a good system. OTOH I would
happily follow an existing standard to avoid confusion.

If somewhen later access by websites is provided, there are lots
of possibilities to sort intuitive by all criterias. Then the physical
structure of the file system is unimportant for the content structure
of the sites.
« Last Edit: October 29, 2010, 11:52:23 AM by vilvoh »

Offline VS

  • Senior Plumber (Devotee)
  • Devotee
  • *
  • Posts: 4855
  • Vladimír Slávik
    • VS's Simutrans site
  • Languages: CS,EN
Re: svn with free material for pak64
« Reply #7 on: October 29, 2010, 12:02:58 PM »
Hm. Good points, but: do you think users will use Subversion?

Offline vilvoh

  • One of the good guys
  • Administrator (Inactive)
  • *
  • Posts: 4504
  • I'm the constructor, the architect
    • Escala real
Re: svn with free material for pak64
« Reply #8 on: October 29, 2010, 12:13:06 PM »
I would prefer, if possible, to use an svn online browser...

Offline paco_m

  • *
  • Posts: 170
Re: svn with free material for pak64
« Reply #9 on: October 29, 2010, 01:56:09 PM »
Hm. Good points, but: do you think users will use Subversion?
I think this is a resource for add-on und pakset creators and not for the normal player who is just searching for an add-on - we have already the forum and the simutrans add-on page where ready to use parts can be published and downloaded. ;)
So I guess that most of the persons interested in this archive are already using subversion to get the simutrans sources...

Offline greenling

  • Lounger
  • *
  • Posts: 1728
  • Simutransarchology it my hobby!
  • Languages: DE,EN
Re: svn with free material for pak64
« Reply #10 on: October 29, 2010, 04:17:42 PM »
Rainer
The link don´t working! :-[
please tell me the way to your website?
that i be cann look on the website.

greenling

Offline skreyola

  • *
  • Posts: 337
  • Trivial Troubleshooter
Re: svn with free material for pak64
« Reply #11 on: October 29, 2010, 04:36:48 PM »
It might be better to group them on disk by author, then project or project month.
Searching should probably be accomplished by making an XML index that can be filtered in various ways, or a SQL/P* database/interface. The search UI could output links to the files that match.

Online prissi

  • Developer
  • Administrator
  • *
  • Posts: 9511
  • Languages: De,EN,JP
Re: svn with free material for pak64
« Reply #12 on: October 29, 2010, 07:34:01 PM »
The purpose of an SVN is to download the entire svn. If this is not done, an (browsable) FTP server might be a better choice ...

And I would like to include many more of vilvoh stuff, but as mentioned before, the / view and \ view as well as the other two | and - view show different images although those are the same vehicles. As I am not very good in cleaning up, those are still on the backburner. Modern container ware still on my to include list.

Offline paco_m

  • *
  • Posts: 170
Re: svn with free material for pak64
« Reply #13 on: October 29, 2010, 07:35:52 PM »
Rainer
The link don´t working! :-[
please tell me the way to your website?
The svn: link is not a link to a website but to an archive managed by the software subversion (version control system) -
so you need this program to access it ;)

Offline rainer

  • SMSC winner
  • *
  • Posts: 100
Re: svn with free material for pak64
« Reply #14 on: October 29, 2010, 08:27:09 PM »
Prissi, I do feel unable to test every object in every direction, condition or situation, therefore I will happily accept all hints to bugs! ; - )
(OTOH I have enough of them on my todo. ; - ))

As for the questions regarding structures: I discussed that with Penny, who is just starting to code magical automatic here. We will keep a developer suitable structure in the svn, and will care for the needs of users later.

Another question to experienced pakset mantainers:
- I've seen Pakset where all objects of a  kind were merged to just one pakset. I agree with Frank that this is a bad solution.
- On the other hand having a unique pakset for every single object seems not a better solution as well.

What are your experiences? How are you handling that problem?

Online prissi

  • Developer
  • Administrator
  • *
  • Posts: 9511
  • Languages: De,EN,JP
Re: svn with free material for pak64
« Reply #15 on: October 29, 2010, 09:00:04 PM »
I am not sure an svn containing paks is a good idea; especially if those paks are not sorted according to simutrans version etc. For enduser something like the japanese wiki sound better:
http://japanese.simutrans.com/index.php?Site_Map

Offline Zeno

  • ENASSA Designer
  • Devotee
  • *
  • Posts: 1997
    • Zeno's Simutrans Creations
  • Languages: ES, EN, CAT
Re: svn with free material for pak64
« Reply #16 on: October 30, 2010, 12:03:17 PM »
What are your experiences? How are you handling that problem?
IMHO it strongly depends on the object family itself: I mean a thousand of citybuildings in individual pak files is hell, specially when these kind of objects do not need much mantainance; OTOH vehicles fit better to be in individual files, as they are more likely to be included or removed from the pakset folder by mantainers, developers, or even users.

Offline electroduck

  • *
  • Posts: 60
  • Nearly Useless Dofus Player
    • My Site
Re: svn with free material for pak64
« Reply #17 on: February 27, 2011, 04:41:53 AM »
This is very nice. I would like to ask some questions though:
Am I automatically allowed to add things?
If yes then is it OK for me to put SketchUp 8 .skp files in sources?
If no then what do I have to do to be allowed to?

EDIT
I noticed that the first post said to feel free to improve it. Doh!
But i do seem to get a Password Error when I tried to commit...

Offline paco_m

  • *
  • Posts: 170
Re: svn with free material for pak64
« Reply #18 on: February 27, 2011, 11:14:03 AM »
You need a account to commit things, ask rainer ;)
Sources means the png and dat files for creating and modifying the paks,
however any additional format like 3D models to render the image used by makeobj would imho be highly appreciated but is not necessary to include.

Offline rainer

  • SMSC winner
  • *
  • Posts: 100
Re: svn with free material for pak64
« Reply #19 on: February 27, 2011, 02:21:58 PM »
This is very nice. I would like to ask some questions though:
Am I automatically allowed to add things?

The SVN is public readable, but not public writable.
Whoever wants to contribute is highly welcome.
Best method is to meet at #simutrans on irc.quakenet.org to discuss the details.

Offline electroduck

  • *
  • Posts: 60
  • Nearly Useless Dofus Player
    • My Site
Re: svn with free material for pak64
« Reply #20 on: February 27, 2011, 07:36:46 PM »
thank you for clearing that up. it was a bit confusing before.

Offline greenling

  • Lounger
  • *
  • Posts: 1728
  • Simutransarchology it my hobby!
  • Languages: DE,EN
Re: svn with free material for pak64
« Reply #21 on: November 12, 2011, 07:57:19 PM »
Rainer your link its broken
svn://svn.domainforge.de/simutrans/