Author Topic: Great Britain simulation in Simutrans Experimental (Read 373446 times)

Carl · « **Reply #35 on:** June 09, 2012, 06:09:51 PM »

Try this: https://dl.dropbox.com/u/61716/UK.sve

Sorry, I had deleted it from my Dropbox.

Carl · « **Reply #36 on:** July 30, 2012, 01:09:39 PM »

I've been working on a new, much improved version of this for a few months now. No trains yet -- building the tracks and cities first this time. First screenshot from NW London:

Improvements:
-- Better heightmap from DEMs
-- Bigger scale -- 118 metres per tile, which allows for all stations and tracks to be built. It also means that the map is 4200 x 8600 tiles and consumes 1.5Gb of RAM so far! I'm not sure how well it will run when there are actually trains operating, but we shall see.
-- Since Experimental has come a long way since I made the last map, I'm hoping I'll be able to simulate as close to realistic running as possible on each line.
-- (Eventually:) real-liveried trains

When the next version of Experimental is released, I'll be able to start operating train routes. (The new braking physics features are required for this to work properly at such a big scale).

And here's a minimap of the London area:

ӔO · « **Reply #37 on:** July 30, 2012, 05:32:01 PM »

wow, that is packed!

kierongreen · « **Reply #38 on:** July 30, 2012, 05:50:15 PM »

That is very impressive. Have to say think I'm going to stick to my 3800x2800 map of Britain for now if only because I don't think my computer would cope with the size of yours! Mind you, only needs to be about another 10 times larger in each direction and we'll be approaching a scale which is realistic for buildings and distances (Moores Law would indicate that should be possible in about 10 years time...)! :p

Carl · « **Reply #39 on:** August 05, 2012, 05:34:27 PM »

I've been experimenting with the upcoming version of Experimental, which is what will allow me to properly proceed with this map.

Here's a video capturing half an hour at Colchester, with trains appearing as they would on an ordinary Monday-to-Friday off-peak schedule.

http://youtu.be/1mM087FdRso

I recommend you switch to large player and turn the resolution up, or you'll need a magnifying glass!

(The trains you see, in order of departure from Colchester, are: 1104 London to Ipswich, 1103 Norwich to London, 1116 London to Clacton, 1120 Colchester to Colchester Town, 1123 London to Norwich, 1130 Norwich to London, 1133 Clacton to London. The two left over at the end are the 1141 London to Colchester Town and the 1144 Colchester Town to London. You can also see the 1056 Colchester to Walton-on-the-Naze in the bottom half of the video at the beginning.)

I'm excited to work more on this when the new version is finalised!

Notes:

> I haven't taken any time to paint the trains yet, but they do all have the relevant .dat file stats, which is required for them to run to time.

> The non-standard source of data here is the National Rail sectional appendix, which gives linespeeds and platform layouts etc. People might not know that this data is available, so here's the link: http://www.networkrail.co.uk/aspx/10563.aspx

Carl · « **Reply #40 on:** September 10, 2012, 10:54:47 PM »

Here's another video of rather higher quality from my above testing -- a journey from Clacton-on-Sea to London in four minutes.

Our service makes all the stops you'd find on an ordinary timetable, and arrive in almost exactly the timetabled 85 in-game minutes. (Sadly you can't see the time indicator as I'm not recording fullscreen).

There are lots of work-in-progress elements here: missing roads and trackwork, cities which need tidying up, etc. But this video gives a good sense for the map.

Phil · « **Reply #41 on:** October 02, 2012, 06:58:41 PM »

Hi Carl,

Please can you re post the link to the pak folder (in your first post), it doesn't seem to be working.

Carl · « **Reply #42 on:** October 03, 2012, 07:02:32 AM »

Hi Phil,

The pak folder is here: https://dl.dropbox.com/u/61716/pak.classic.rar

Note that the performance of the old map will be pretty unsatisfactory in the latest version of Experimental, since the vehicle physics have changed since I made it. When the new version of Experimental comes out (any time now, hopefully) I'll be spending some time developing my new version of this map.

Carl · « **Reply #43 on:** October 05, 2012, 07:08:56 PM »

Here's another video from the new map, showing local services around London Liverpool Street:

Preview: click for larger

*Watch in 720p and fullscreen to avoid squinting*

This one features services to Shenfield, Chingford, Enfield Town and Cheshunt. As ever, what you see reflects a real daytime off-peak timetable. You'll notice (from the annotations) that the Shenfield arrivals are a little early, but everything else is more or less spot on.

Of course, Liverpool Street has more than four platforms: the rest are underground for space reasons. Because the scale is 118 meters per tile, it wouldn't be possible to have all the platforms above ground.

I'm hoping to make a different kind of video soon: a "video diary" type thing in which I give a tour of the map as it stands and talk about how it's been made and where it will go next.

kierongreen · « **Reply #44 on:** October 05, 2012, 09:27:44 PM »

The track layout on the Tower Gateway branch of the DLR is not accurate. After the Bank branch was opened Tower Gateway was served from a single lead junction, and more recently still the station has been rebuilt to only have one platform track (but two platforms).

It goes without saying that to have a layout so complete and complex that only tiny flaws like this can be spotted is very impressive

sdog · « **Reply #45 on:** October 06, 2012, 05:15:49 AM »

I'd love such a video-diary!

Showing the complexity of the network and the connexions. That's where the real beauty lies for me, when the subject leaves the pure aesthetic and my mind forms it's own representation of the complex system.

ps.: this just made me wonder if the term beauty is correct, as it may apply only to aesthetic beauty. The representation in my mind can hardly called aesthetic* anymore, since it is beyond sensing already. Unless i would consider the transfer of information in my mind as sensing. First thought was the appreciation of abstract art, where one might appreciate the representation in one's mind, thus seeing no conceptual difference, which would most likely fall under aesthetic. Third thought everything sensed requires a mental representation. Fourth thought, there is a fundamentall difference in my own perception of the matter when looking at a non-abstract photo and the mental representation of a complex system. Let both have the same degree of appreciation by me, i consider the former as mostly reception the latter as mostly forming the mental representation. Degree of conscious evolvement is different when forming both mental representations. Reflection on this: for the picture the medium is important, i would not appreciate the beauty of it when reading a good description, i can get the beauty of the complex system regardless of the medium -- as long as i can understand it.

pps.: mostly wrote above to structure my thoughts, decided not to delete it, since the people here might understand why i can consider the complex system to be beautiful (while i doubt it is the right word).

*WP etymology: αἰσθάνομαι (aisthanomai, meaning "I perceive, feel, sense").

Carl · « **Reply #46 on:** October 06, 2012, 05:18:40 AM »

Ah, thanks Kieron -- looking more closely at this document I see that I had misread the entry and exit platforms facing the single track as being two platforms for two separate tracks.

Quote from: sdog on October 06, 2012, 05:15:49 AM

Showing the complexity of the network and the connexions. That's where the real beauty lies for me, when the subject leaves the pure aesthetic and my mind forms it's own representation of the complex system.

I agree completely -- that's the main appeal for me of wanting to simulate real systems, networks and passenger flows. I'll get to work on the video diary soon.

Carl · « **Reply #47 on:** October 07, 2012, 02:11:29 PM »

Another new video, this time featuring the Essex Thameside lines -- i.e. what used to be known as the London, Tilbury and Southend Railway. The video features trains at Southend, Upminster, Barking and Grays:

A preview image (click for larger):

We see tube trains at Barking and Upminster, too. Note that tubes are limited to four cars since in central London there is only room for two-tile long underground stations.

I've also been working on the suburban lines out of Waterloo. These were the first real test for my ambition to simulate a real timetable, since the lines out of Waterloo are very crowded! I was relieved to find, however, that everything works just fine. A preview image is below, and I'll have a video of this (as well as the promised video diary) coming soon:

(click for larger)

Carl · « **Reply #48 on:** October 09, 2012, 03:15:45 PM »

Here's the first episode of the promised video diary, in which I introduce the map and talk mainly about two things: first, how it's different from my first attempt at a GB map in Simutrans, and second, the various kinds of data that I've used in making the map.

This screenshot is of the Richmond area. I'll probably have to add another bay platform at Richmond station once I add the London Overground services. At some stations I've omitted platforms which are not in regular off-peak use. Richmond seems to have five bay platforms, but I think I'll only need four. Also, to give another example, I think that the new bay platforms at Blackfriars are only used by peak-time services, so I won't be building those -- which is just as well, since that area is quite crowded!

Sarlock · « **Reply #49 on:** October 09, 2012, 04:05:15 PM »

Very well done! Great video, wonderful view of your city thusfar. Can't wait for the next one!

Combuijs · « **Reply #50 on:** October 09, 2012, 07:40:17 PM »

Very interesting video. A lot of work has been done, a greater lot of work still needs to be done! Enjoyed it so far!! Good luck with the rest, and remember: there is life outside Simutrans...

kierongreen · « **Reply #51 on:** October 09, 2012, 08:01:42 PM »

That's the strangest Aberdonian accent I've heard in a long time :p

Very interesting though - definitely shows the impressive amount of work you've done

sdog · « **Reply #52 on:** October 10, 2012, 04:27:09 AM »

That's not a small project.
When it's done i'll use it when traveling to the UK instead of official timetables :-)

Quote from: kierongreen on October 09, 2012, 08:01:42 PM

That's the strangest Aberdonian accent I've heard in a long time :p

Ignorant as the non-native speaker i am, it sounded just like typical accademic english to me. :-(

Carl · « **Reply #53 on:** October 10, 2012, 07:19:35 AM »

Thanks for the comments all!

Quote

That's the strangest Aberdonian accent I've heard in a long time :p

Quote

Ignorant as the non-native speaker i am, it sounded just like typical accademic english to me. :-(

Kieron was joking -- my accent is definitely not Aberdonian

I've only lived here for six months, so the accent has yet to take hold!

Quote

Good luck with the rest, and remember: there is life outside Simutrans...

Haha, indeed! Even to get this far has been a slow gradual process over several months, so don't worry, I maintain a healthy life outside Simutrans. In fact, I've spent a lot of time in the last few weeks engrossed in Guild Wars 2. Oh, you mean that there is life outside video games? Well, I'm not so sure about that...

VS · « **Reply #54 on:** October 10, 2012, 10:44:02 AM »

This is incredible! Shame that virtual undertakings are so hard to see... When finished, this would deserve (or rather generate?) some publicity (giving Simutrans some spotlight as well

). At least public transport people should be interested!

Come to think about this, why is it that the program feels... normal, while the world created in it amazing? That's not fair.

Quote from: carlbaker on October 10, 2012, 07:19:35 AM

Oh, you mean that there is life outside video games? Well, I'm not so sure about that...

In "real world", cakes can be seen, even made, as James can confirm. But we were taught that cake is a lie.

The rest is an exercise for the reader.

Carl · « **Reply #55 on:** October 14, 2012, 11:28:33 AM »

The London Overground (and Underground) network has been taking shape:

This is Highbury & Islington, whereOverground trains from Crystal Palace and West Croydon terminate -- allowing passengers to change for North London Line services to Stratford, Richmond and Clapham Junction. All services are operated by Class 378 'Capitalstar' trains.

Maragil · « **Reply #56 on:** October 16, 2012, 02:56:07 PM »

Hey Carl.

Londoner here. I used to frequent these forums a lot, but popped on earlier today to see how things were going as I somewhat dropped off, but I must say that this is *amazing*. Awesomeness of this simply cannot be explained.

So yeah.

Keep going!

Isaac_Clarke · « **Reply #57 on:** October 16, 2012, 03:32:19 PM »

Dear Carl,
Your videos, drawings and explications about your map are very fascinating to watch. It must have taken a lot of time to make that and I think your work inspires me to introduce in this section my own map of Paris.

Keep it up!

Carl · « **Reply #58 on:** October 16, 2012, 03:58:50 PM »

Thank you both for your kind comments!

Isaac, I'm sure that many of us would be very excited to see similar content from your Paris map -- go for it!

Carl · « **Reply #59 on:** October 26, 2012, 12:49:15 PM »

Here's a new video diary, in which we take a tour of the West Anglia Main Line (by riding a Stansted Express service) and I talk a little about the line and its challenges:

The screenshot is of the southern part of this line at Hackney Downs, where the line crosses the North London Line from Stratford to Richmond (etc).

I have another video almost ready to go discussing the scheduling and timetabling features at work here. I'll release that in a few days.

Carl · « **Reply #60 on:** October 30, 2012, 05:25:33 PM »

Another video, hot on the heels of the last, in which we discuss how the timetables and schedules work on this map. I also give a general overview of the progress that's been made since previous videos.

Screenshot from the Cannon Street/London Bridge/Waterloo area, where services have been taking shape.

Sarlock · « **Reply #61 on:** October 31, 2012, 03:45:16 AM »

Very impressive, I love watching these! You've done a marvelous job with your modelling.

Your game seems to be running fairly smoothly still despite the enormous map size.

Carl · « **Reply #62 on:** October 31, 2012, 09:22:20 AM »

Glad you like them!

The map still runs very smoothly -- I'm only recording at 10fps here so it's actually even smoother than shown in the video -- and I can still fast-forward up to 30-35x normal speed. That said, performance is my big worry on this map -- I'm concerned that it will be unplayably slow towards the end. I'm not worried about the number of convoys, since I don't think there will be many more than on the previous version of the map, and that still ran acceptably even when full. (Also, I think about 1/4 of the total convoys are already on this new map -- since the frequency of London Underground trains means that they take up a surprising proportion of the total convoys). But the population and passenger levels are likely to be much higher on this new map, and it's this that might kill performance. We shall see.

greenling · « **Reply #63 on:** October 31, 2012, 04:23:47 PM »

Carl
how often have you exchange the vehicle in the game?

Carl · « **Reply #64 on:** October 31, 2012, 04:35:17 PM »

Hi greenling, what do you mean by "exchange"?

greenling · « **Reply #65 on:** October 31, 2012, 04:41:16 PM »

Carl
The word exchange it a another word for replace.

Carl · « **Reply #66 on:** October 31, 2012, 04:44:18 PM »

If you mean how often do I have to replace vehicles in the pakset, the answer is often: all of the trains I'm using here have been painted or modified by me (which is why many of them look a little dodgy

)

Or if you mean how often do I have to use the "replace" function in-game, the answer is never -- I've set it up so that I don't have to use that.

greenling · « **Reply #67 on:** October 31, 2012, 09:58:53 PM »

Carl

Quote from: Carl on October 31, 2012, 04:44:18 PM

Or if you mean how often do I have to use the "replace" function in-game, the answer is never -- I've set it up so that I don't have to use that.

Thank you for this info!

Carl · « **Reply #68 on:** November 01, 2012, 07:53:24 PM »

Two more screenshots (click for larger):

First, a quick one I grabbed by accident with four trains passing at Brentwood (on the London-Colchester line). On checking the timetable I was pleasantly surprised to find that all four trains were indeed meant to be passing here at exactly that time! I continue to be amazed at just how accurately it is possible to model the network on this map -- this is a testament to how far Experimental has come in recent versions. The top-most two trains are the London-Shenfield trains, and the other two are the Braintree and Southend trains.

Second, an up-to-date shot of the minimap, showing the extent and limits of the progress that I've made. It's progressing nicely... (more detail on click)

kierongreen · « **Reply #69 on:** November 01, 2012, 09:27:47 PM »

Very nice - might be my eyes playing tricks on me but looks like you've not got a reversing siding at St. Albans City (north of the station between the slow lines) which may cause problems once you start implementing Thameslink services. Also when I was last at Harwich I remember it being single track (on the platform anyway), maybe it's changed in the last 16 years though - this is just from glancing at the minimap so apologies if I've misinterpreted it...

The videos are interesting to follow, I look forward to seeing many more