Topic: Great Britain simulation in Simutrans Experimental

[Carl]

These are around 11-13 pixels from ground to the base of the roof.

Good idea - I'm very happy for you to take and adapt these as required, as I know they might not all fit your style. Also I'm not as diligent on the rotations - I don't bother changing the light and shade. I know some people find that a big deal.

I'll upload the sources when I've ticked off a few more and made a few edits.

[KneeOn]

I'll scale them, fit them up with colours and neaten them up and release them as part of the pak with your copyright on there - that'll save me so much work because half the problem is trying to imagine a new building and then actually implementing it!


I rather hit a rut with the city buildings so this extra set of eyes and imagination is most welcome. Thank you!


Rotations and colours are the easy bit for me, I've gotten a lot smoother at chucking those extra bits out so you've really done the hard bit for me by coming up with new building types.

[Carl]

That sounds like an ideal division of labour then!

I've been getting my inspiration from looking at Google Satellite's 3D view in British cities where it's available...

[Carl]

A new video today: our first in several years to visit Scotland! We travel 175 miles from Edinburgh to Inverness, traversing the Highlands and climbing as far as 450m above sea level.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mXrbr3ClO24



The journey follows one of Scotrail's recently-acquired HST trains. It features several different types of climate and terrain as we travel through the Cairngorms National Park.

Here are a few more screenshots - and, of course, a map!









Next week I'll post a savegame update with another big chunk of the map updated.

[Carl]

A new savegame update today! Areas of the map updated this time are Liverpool & Merseyside, North Wales, and a few bits of Scotland as seen on the Inverness video.

Download the savegame at the following link. As ever you will need a legacy Simutrans Experimental exe to run this.
https://www.dropbox.com/s/2wx1afvh9ioayib/UK-Jul2020.rar?dl=0

Here are the sources for the new city buildings.



Rebuilding the Merseyside area involved placing around 11,000 buildings. Several rail lines have also had their alignments fixed. I've also updated the Class 507 Merseyrail train graphics.



Wales has now been completed. This update covers the North Wales coast, Anglesey, Denbighshire, Gwynedd, and other bits left over from previous updates.

As well as the map changes, this update also includes several of the redrawn city houses/buildings as shown a couple of weeks ago. They brighten up cities quite a lot!







List of towns/areas updated: Flint, Rhyl, Colwyn Bay, Llandudno, Dolgellau, Barmouth, Caenarfon, Bangor, Anglesey / Liverpool, Birkenhead, Wirral, Merseyside / Dunfermline, Glenrothes, Kirkcaldy, Perth, Inverness

Bus routes:
Chester-Crewe,Mold,Wrexham,Runcorn,West Kirby
Flint-Mold
Wrexham-Rhyl
Chester-Holywell
Rhyl-Llandudno
Wrexham-Barmouth
Bangor-Aberystwyth
Pwllheli-Nefyn,Aberdaron
Liverpool local
Liverpool-Kirkby
Birkenhead-West Kirby,Wallasey

[NoMorePacers]

Just so you're aware, the download for the latest save seems to supply the pakset for the Balkan map instead of the British map.

[Carl]

Oops - thanks for spotting. Fixed now.

[KneeOn]

Lovely stuff!

Once I've drawn the remainder of the attractions I want to do (these multi-tile buildings are slow to make!) I'll get on to looking at the sources. The screenshots look wonderful!

[TheAmir259]

Newcomer here, and maybe more praises won't be of any help but its just marvelous! As one who attempted something kinda similar, i know how much time, work and dedication it needs to do something of such a scale. Well the good thing about this game is the size of the map so this kind of approach, in such a scale is certainly doable. The one i did in another game was about the british railway network as a whole, at its peak, which is before Dr. Beeching came and axe everything. The limitations of the map in terms of size meant that i eventually had to deviate from accuracy so i couldn't implement every route and the alignments and orientations of the lines and stations were also not historical. It would be great though if such a thing is possible here. Not that i'm asking for one, so please don't mind me.

[kierongreen]

Newcomer here, and maybe more praises won't be of any help but its just marvelous! As one who attempted something kinda similar, i know how much time, work and dedication it needs to do something of such a scale. Well the good thing about this game is the size of the map so this kind of approach, in such a scale is certainly doable. The one i did in another game was about the british railway network as a whole, at its peak, which is before Dr. Beeching came and axe everything. The limitations of the map in terms of size meant that i eventually had to deviate from accuracy so i couldn't implement every route and the alignments and orientations of the lines and stations were also not historical. It would be great though if such a thing is possible here. Not that i'm asking for one, so please don't mind me.

It certainly would be - Carl's heighmap covers all area reached historically by the UK network although for several months now I've been working on a heightmap that would take in the whole of Britain and Ireland (well actually also a fair chunk of France) to allow simulation of cross channel and Irish Sea Ferries (provides a reason for Holyhead, Fishguard, Stranraer and the numerous Channel Ports to have better services). I'd envisage the early 30's as the ideal time to do such a game - A3s and A4s cruising up and down the East Coast, EMUs starting to spread across the Southern Railway, Newcastle and Liverpool. It would take a long time to get every branch line in place, and also timetables of that era aren't exactly easy to read (you can obtain them with a bit of searching). Prototype operation with slip coaches, significant freight workings which probably don't have records kept and lots of shunting at termini stations would be some difficulties I could see....

[Carl]

Thanks for the kind words TheAmir529!

A historical version would be incredible. As well as timetables, I suspect it may be hard to come by info about track layouts in different areas? Or maybe that's also documented somewhere.

I also have an updated heightmap in the works, though probably only covering Great Britain and a slice of Ireland, rather than the whole of Ireland.

[KneeOn]

I've finally gotten around to looking at those city buildings in detail, they're very high quality and once converted for scale and style will be much valued additions to the pakset. Thank you for the sources Carl.

[mspljd1990]

Newcomer here, and maybe more praises won't be of any help but its just marvelous! As one who attempted something kinda similar, i know how much time, work and dedication it needs to do something of such a scale. Well the good thing about this game is the size of the map so this kind of approach, in such a scale is certainly doable. The one i did in another game was about the british railway network as a whole, at its peak, which is before Dr. Beeching came and axe everything. The limitations of the map in terms of size meant that i eventually had to deviate from accuracy so i couldn't implement every route and the alignments and orientations of the lines and stations were also not historical. It would be great though if such a thing is possible here. Not that i'm asking for one, so please don't mind me.

Thanks for the kind words TheAmir529!

A historical version would be incredible. As well as timetables, I suspect it may be hard to come by info about track layouts in different areas? Or maybe that's also documented somewhere.

I also have an updated heightmap in the works, though probably only covering Great Britain and a slice of Ireland, rather than the whole of Ireland.

I've always wanted to do something similar to this as well, but during the turn of the century so a few years after privatisation, when we'd have the likes of Arriva Trains Northern, First North Western, Central Trains, GNER, Midland Mainline, Virgin Trains, Wales And West, etc. operating on British railways. A sort of nostalgia thing, but I wouldn't know where to begin with making paksets.

[KneeOn]

I am currently doing exactly this - making a Pak set. I want to give Carl's expansive train collection a proper game environment.


Start with what interests you, paint a few trains? Lots of the trains in the time period you want to do are still in service - 313, 319, HST, Pacers etc.

[mspljd1990]

I am currently doing exactly this - making a Pak set. I want to give Carl's expansive train collection a proper game environment.


Start with what interests you, paint a few trains? Lots of the trains in the time period you want to do are still in service - 313, 319, HST, Pacers etc.

What sort of liveries are you making?

[Carl]

I've finally gotten around to looking at those city buildings in detail, they're very high quality and once converted for scale and style will be much valued additions to the pakset. Thank you for the sources Carl.

Bit late on this as I've been away, but just to say - glad to hear they work for your project!

[KneeOn]

@mspljd1990
[/size][/color]
I'm not right now, I'm doing the buildings and everything else, then fixing day files for the existing trains before I eventually add historic trains - that's work in the order of years. If you were to draw trains to fit a different era, I'd be happy to help out with some guidance. I'd also love to use any historic trains you paint!


@carl, I was doing the first village hall the other day and wanted a sloped pointed roof, your pngs helped massively!

[mspljd1990]

@mspljd1990
[/size][/color]
I'm not right now, I'm doing the buildings and everything else, then fixing day files for the existing trains before I eventually add historic trains - that's work in the order of years. If you were to draw trains to fit a different era, I'd be happy to help out with some guidance. I'd also love to use any historic trains you paint!


@carl, I was doing the first village hall the other day and wanted a sloped pointed roof, your pngs helped massively!

I'm not really sure where to begin to be honest! I intend to just edit the liveries of trains that I already have.

[KneeOn]

Download GIMP if you haven't and learn to use it if you don't know. It's quite easy to pick up.


For livery editing I suggest starting with a PEP unit - 317/315/313. They're diverse and you could do a BR and NSE livery.


Lets say you do BR. Identify a colour palette for sunlight facing parts - BR Blue and BR White, and put these in a separate image so you can keep your colours consistent between units.


Then identify what colour changes on your existing unit on the livery are the actual livery and what are shading which give it shape. By this I mean sometimes on a unit you will see what appear to be darker parts towards the bottom or top of a unit. These give it definition. So lets pick the blue. We have our main blue shade already. If the colour darkens, darken the BR blue and fill in as you go using the existing shading to guide you. Don't get caught up in major changes in colours, just identify where the shades change.


Repeate for the train views which face away from the sun, darkening your base BR blue.


It's a lot of trial and error. I've been painting for years on and off, and its only recently I've been particularly happy that my work looks 'polished'.


Rip open the dat files, zoom right in, start painting and don't forget to zoom out every once in a while - sometimes you'll be obsessing over a pixel, wishing you had an extra one to fit in and actually either way it wouldn't matter!

[Carl]

Hi all, just wanted to check in here as I haven't updated in a while. I haven't spent any time playing Simutrans since July so there's no update to the map for now. It increasingly seems like I will binge Simutrans for a few months at a time, before taking a few months off, and the starts/stops are quite unpredictable.

Work has been quite busy since the summer (if you're interested in the COVID-19 situation in the UK you may be interested in some of my work-related tweets here.) Most of the time left for gaming since July has been spent playing FFXIV with my wife.

It's likely I'll be back on Simutrans before the end of the year, but as I said, I find these phases unpredictable. There are some challenges with how to approach the GB map at the moment too now that the pandemic has ravaged the normal timetable.

[mspljd1990]

Hi all, just wanted to check in here as I haven't updated in a while. I haven't spent any time playing Simutrans since July so there's no update to the map for now. It increasingly seems like I will binge Simutrans for a few months at a time, before taking a few months off, and the starts/stops are quite unpredictable.

Work has been quite busy since the summer (if you're interested in the COVID-19 situation in the UK you may be interested in some of my work-related tweets here.) Most of the time left for gaming since July has been spent playing FFXIV with my wife.

It's likely I'll be back on Simutrans before the end of the year, but as I said, I find these phases unpredictable. There are some challenges with how to approach the GB map at the moment too now that the pandemic has ravaged the normal timetable.

Take your time, but can I request updating EMR and the East Midlands region as a priority for when you're back?

[123abc]

Any update on this?

[Carl]

Sorry I've only just seen that message.

Nothing to update at the moment. The IRL British rail network being in limbo right now (in terms of service patterns and timetables) has been undermining my motivation to work on it. There's still some additions I can do in the meantime, but it's likely I'll wait a while longer until the dust settles.

[NoMorePacers]

I don't know if this would help at all, but you can find data for services going back around 2 years (so before the pandemic struck) on this site: http://www.charlwoodhouse.co.uk/

It's somewhat clunky and slow to use but it's about as detailed a free data source for going back in time as you can get at the moment.

[Carl]

That is useful, thanks!

[KneeOn]

Carl, it's good to see you back, even if only for a short update! I hope you're not having to use the network right now - it's an absolute state. My last train is around 2235, but on Saturdays it's 0100 - why?!

Where would you see this project going if service intensity does return to below pre-covid levels? You've put in major timetable changes already - do you see yourself moving with the times or keeping this project as a preservation? Similarly your train set - new units are arriving/have arrived. Would you maintain this?

I suppose the nuclear option would be to go for a 3rd edition when the time is right to use an "extended" feature set - do you see your self ever doing that?

[Carl]

Hi KneeOn - nice to see your updates recently too. I haven't had to commute since March 2020 so am at least able to avoid the real-world issues with the network!

If the network settles into a permanently lower level of service then I'd update the map with that. The key word is "settles", though - I don't want to add (for example) the topsy-turvy summer 2021 timetable only to have to change almost everything again in December. It might be a while before it's clear where the dust will settle on this.

Adding new vehicles is something I can do in the meantime though, when I get around to it, and there are some overdue ones.

I began to have a look at Extended last summer before my current hiatus. I actually got as far as putting together some assets for a "micro-project" focused around the Hudson line which I doubt will ever see the light of day. I definitely think that any Extended work from me would be in new projects and not existing ones - so the question is whether, one day, I'll think it's worthwhile or doable to restart the GB project again in Extended.  I found there was a lot of fiddly work transposing things to half-height - it would require a lot of pakset graphic adjustments.

For now I'm thinking a little about projects that don't depend on real-world timetables like my Eastern USA one - was looking at rebooting that with a new heightmap, albeit probably not in Extended because (again) I can't be bothered to do all the work required to prepare the pakset for Extended.

[KneeOn]

I can't say I'm surprised about any of that. Within the commuter belt are a large number of shift working commuters and I think the summer 21 timetable is going to be disappointing for those who can't quite make work or have curtailed last trains. Obviously there are dozens of people who do these time table changes and more still who assign units. It would be an impressive feat if you could even have a summer timetable change put in!


There is something fun about a fantasy, but simulation/realistic map and in a free play, model railway environment this removes some of your constraints.


I did a roadmap for what will be in each release for Pak.64GB. I found not having a long term list makes preparing a set really tiresome and I imagine that's exponentially amplified when making a bespoke set and then implementing with the detail you require for your maps. Would you move to 128/192/256 tile sets? I know they have a European/American/Asian following that means they could be more ready to go.

[Carl]

I've always found 128-pixel (and larger) paksets a bit offputting. Obviously the graphics are better, but I like to be able to zoom really far out and get a wide overview of an area. I think it's still the case that 128px paksets allow you to see much less on the screen at once, even at higher zoom levels. And some things that look good at 64px level won't also look good at 128px level.

The other issue is that my art skills aren't up to making high-quality 128px assets, and I'll always want to be adding and adapting rather than only using what's already part of an off-the-shelf pakset. My 64px skills have gotten better over the years so maybe this particular barrier isn't insurmountable.

Having a bespoke set for a particular map does give a bit more freedom than maintaining a whole pakset, because I only have to care about whatever I need to add/implement right now. So other gaps don't matter so much. This is ultimately why I haven't developed the set into a proper pakset.

[KneeOn]

I agree on the 64px scale being the best overall, even if graphically the larger sets have better looking components. I like playing big map, big network, multi-city games so having the far zoom is hugely helpful.

I've also found my 128px drawing is never going to be good enough - I did try 96px once and made an alright(?) looking 377 or 313 - I forget which. Ultimately I like having a freedom to make the user imagine how the asset will look rather than spoon feeding a curve or a detail because it hides the fact I can't draw curves or details very well.

Going slightly off topic, I wonder what graphics size gets played the most? With multiple ways to get the game (steam, direct download, I'm pretty sure there's some Linux terminal magic), tracking usage is difficult and the lack of discussion on any particular forum makes it even harder. Searching #simutrans on twitter, instagram or facebook gives a mostly Japanese following! I suppose its the same debate about different gauge scales on a model railway.

You've achieved many train-spotters dream here, by re-creating the entire network with real units. I wonder if the UK trainspotting community saw this, would they get involved or become active players? The lack of detailing individual bits is easily offset by them making their own graphics or the sheer scale of maps they could be building - very different to a metro (at best) scale Cities: Skylines map or the hyper detailed but ultimately painstakingly difficult Train Simulator.