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Author Topic: Simutrans community: addons.simutrans.com  (Read 21747 times)

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Offline maister

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Simutrans community: addons.simutrans.com
« on: November 04, 2008, 10:27:10 AM »
I would refer to the Simutrans sites discussion http://forum.simutrans.com/index.php?topic=624.0

Hello Kristian

I would like to ask you, how you want proceed with your side http://addons.simutrans.com/ ?
Any further plans?

I think it`s very important that the community has a good clearly arranged relay station for the addons.
My picture is something like the japanise one`s but better  ;)

Thank you for your feedback !

Offline Kristian

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Re: Simutrans community: addons.simutrans.com
« Reply #1 on: November 04, 2008, 11:12:53 AM »
Hello,

I currently do not have a lot of spare time, and most of what I have, I spend sleeping. I will do my best to keep addons.simutrans.com and maps.simutrans.com running, but I do not have time to go through the forums and hunt for new maps and addons. My third website abo.simutrans.com, should probably be taken offline.

I am more than willing to hand over the responsibilities for the aforementioned sites to someone else (if there are any volunteers), but such a decision will have to be approved by the Devotees (or through Hellmade?).

regards,
Kristian

Offline Kristian

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Re: Simutrans community: addons.simutrans.com
« Reply #2 on: November 04, 2008, 11:13:33 AM »
Could you post a link to the Japanese addons site?

Offline maister

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Re: Simutrans community: addons.simutrans.com
« Reply #3 on: November 04, 2008, 11:42:18 AM »
Thanks for reply !

The link to the japanise addon site:
http://japanese.simutrans.com/index.php?%A5%A2%A5%C9%A5%AA%A5%F3#wd19ad78

(it`s all written in japanese, but the mayor things are readable)

I think the best way is, that more then one person take care about a site.
Because it`s normal that have somebody no time or is not motivated or has other things to do.

The best way, i think so, to make right here also a call for interested persons?

Dear Devotees and volunteers whats your position about?

Offline Kristian

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Re: Simutrans community: addons.simutrans.com
« Reply #4 on: November 04, 2008, 11:45:50 AM »
The current structure of the addons site makes it easy for multiple persons to upload addons, so that is definitely a possibility.

Offline maister

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Re: Simutrans community: addons.simutrans.com
« Reply #5 on: November 04, 2008, 11:57:49 AM »
Nice. Some other questions about:
- Are you the creator of this web-site?
- Who bears the cost of the webspace?
- And where is the server?

Offline Kristian

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Re: Simutrans community: addons.simutrans.com
« Reply #6 on: November 04, 2008, 12:03:27 PM »
Nice. Some other questions about:
- Are you the creator of this web-site?
- Who bears the cost of the webspace?
- And where is the server?

The addons website is joint work of Robert, Coo and me.
The website is hosted at the simutrans server, which I believe is Hellmade's own. I do not know where it is.

Offline vilvoh

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Re: Simutrans community: addons.simutrans.com
« Reply #7 on: November 04, 2008, 12:06:14 PM »
I support it. It very important to have a good repository of object updated. Count with me.

Answering your questions:
1- I thought stormoog was the author...
2 & 3 - As far as I know, the website is located at the same server as the forum (currently hellmade's)

Offline maister

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Re: Simutrans community: addons.simutrans.com
« Reply #8 on: November 04, 2008, 12:27:38 PM »
I think some updates on the addon-side would be very good.

- Possibility to deposit bigger Pictures and explanatory notes how to use the addon
- A overview tree on the left side (better handling). Sure the filters are very nice and should be keep. But the current filter-structur is designed for visitors which one know what he want. In my opinion the visitor has no idea about, he would first have a look whats available.
- Also on the Startsite a little news possibility.

What think you about?

Offline vilvoh

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Re: Simutrans community: addons.simutrans.com
« Reply #9 on: November 04, 2008, 12:45:35 PM »
It sounds interesting. The small images shown now should be thumbnails, indeed. Big preview images can be hosted at screenshots.simutrans.com or at vs.archive.

The tree is also a good idea, but I would suggest a system of menus and submenus. Perhaps something like this (CSS rounded menu) as the front page would be nice.

BTW, Do you have any programming skills to achieve any of those improvements?

Offline Combuijs

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Re: Simutrans community: addons.simutrans.com
« Reply #10 on: November 04, 2008, 12:49:25 PM »
Quote
I will do my best to keep addons.simutrans.com and maps.simutrans.com running, but I do not have time to go through the forums and hunt for new maps and addons

I would not mind to take over the maintainance of the maps site. I've got experience in HTML coding (see for example my website http://www.combuijs.nl).

Offline vilvoh

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Re: Simutrans community: addons.simutrans.com
« Reply #11 on: November 04, 2008, 01:00:27 PM »
So, now we have the people, next thing we need is the means to carry out the remodeling, don't you think so?

Offline maister

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Re: Simutrans community: addons.simutrans.com
« Reply #12 on: November 04, 2008, 02:54:22 PM »
@vilvoh
Acc. CSS rounded menu. I think thats too much, the code of the site should be very simple.
- Because the web-site should be modifiable also for other people, in the case that we are lost.
- And as much as possible other volunteer should can work with the page.
- The Page should be build for the aeon

Like the page from combuijs http://www.combuijs.nl/ (graphically there are possibilities  ;) )

You agree with this arguments?

@Combuijs @vilvoh

The other way is to use a standart substructure like this Forum. I try to find some usefull portals later in the evening.


But anyway before we start, we need a "go ahead" from a Devotee.

Offline vilvoh

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Re: Simutrans community: addons.simutrans.com
« Reply #13 on: November 04, 2008, 03:22:17 PM »

Acc. CSS rounded menu. I think thats too much, the code of the site should be very simple.

It was an example. We can discuss the complexity of the desing, the rounded menu is not as complex as it seems and it would be only for the frontpage, but I'm agree. It should be as simple as possible.

The other way is to use a standart substructure like this Forum. I try to find some usefull portals later in the evening.

Well, it sound good but I don't know If we have enough margin to do that short of things. The current site structure seems very simple. I don't know if it uses a database, but even in that case would be difficult to implement something new. Of course, always will be easier if you use some kind of template or framework.

BTW, what do you mean with aeon? for the eternity perhaps?

But anyway before we start, we need a "go ahead" from a Devotee.
I am a devotee and Combuijs too (the status is between the nick and the post-counter). That's two devotees... ;D...what we actually need is to put in contact with the previous managers or with people from the web or server admin team that will give us access to the domain and its content.

Offline Combuijs

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Re: Simutrans community: addons.simutrans.com
« Reply #14 on: November 04, 2008, 03:24:42 PM »
Quote
I would not mind to take over the maintainance of the maps site

I'm talking about the maps site, not the add-ons site! Add-ons is far more complicated in my opinion.

Quote
Like the page from combuijs http://www.combuijs.nl/ (graphically there are possibilities  ;) )

Yes, hint taken! I'm far from a graphic designer, I'm horrible in amongst pixels. That's why I keep far from all the graphics involved in Simutrans! Way too difficult! On my (or any other) website I like to go for content, not for fancy graphics. As long as the user-interface does its job and gets the user where he wants to be, I'm happy.

Quote
I think thats too much, the code of the site should be very simple.
The add-ons website is generated from a database (probably the maps website as well). So the code of the site is not that important, it's the contents of that database that should be maintained.

Offline robofish

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Re: Simutrans community: addons.simutrans.com
« Reply #15 on: November 04, 2008, 03:52:09 PM »
Well, it sound good but I don't know If we have enough margin to do that short of things. The current site structure seems very simple. I don't know if it uses a database, but even in that case would be difficult to implement something new. Of course, always will be easier if you use some kind of template or framework.
Yes it does use a database and also templates. The database is maintained from a backend (admin-interface ...) specially designed for this particular use.

Quote
...what we actually need is to put in contact with the previous managers or with people from the web or server admin team that will give us access to the domain and its content.
Well Kristian is the current(!) manager. I just offered him, to extend the software used for the addons site, as i wrote it for him a while ago. Let's wait what he thinks. (BTW I do have access to the domain as well IIRC, so need to contact the admins, yet)

Offline vilvoh

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Re: Simutrans community: addons.simutrans.com
« Reply #16 on: November 04, 2008, 03:57:22 PM »
I guess is implemented in PHP, isn't it?

Offline Kristian

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Re: Simutrans community: addons.simutrans.com
« Reply #17 on: November 04, 2008, 04:36:39 PM »
(I hope that I do not offend anyone, I am a bit tired, and do not weigh my words very well under such circumstances.)


Maps.simutrans.com
Made in plain HTML (with CSS?). Technically, anything new is as good as this one. Whether this is the case graphically, that is up to discussion, but not one I am going to take part in. The old design is by Joker.

Well Kristian is the current(!) manager.
So I get to decide, eh? :) I will send Combuijs the login details to the maps site tomorrow. It is up to him to do anything with them or not.


Addons.simutrans.com
backend
The current site is based on a database which has a lot of addons in it already. It was a pain to fill, and frankly speaking, any alternative site which does not use the existing database will cause loads of needless double work.
The current backend is quite sophisticated, and again, writing a new and better backend from scratch will be a lot of needless work. If you have any wishes for extending the framework, I suggest you discuss it with Robofish.

contents
What the addons site really needs (IMHO) is updated content. New content is comparably easy to upload through the existing backend. We can give volunteers an account if they wish so.

Offline vilvoh

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Re: Simutrans community: addons.simutrans.com
« Reply #18 on: November 04, 2008, 04:54:14 PM »
I think we all are agree that the priority task is to update the content. After that, we can discuss about appearance's improvements...

Do you follow any criteria to include an object in the repository?
« Last Edit: November 04, 2008, 04:59:56 PM by vilvoh »

Offline robofish

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Re: Simutrans community: addons.simutrans.com
« Reply #19 on: November 04, 2008, 05:37:06 PM »
I think we all are agree that the priority task is to update the content. After that, we can discuss about appearance's improvements...
agreed, but maybe you should already start your wishlist, so you get what you want on 24th of December ;)
What I will most likly add is pagination for the addon list and an easier way to upload images inside the backend.

You asked for bigger preview images, right? Maybe those should open when you click on the small preview?
New, hierarchical menu structure is no problem technical, but where should the menu be placed?

Offline IgorEliezer br

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Re: Simutrans community: addons.simutrans.com
« Reply #20 on: November 04, 2008, 05:38:21 PM »
* shifting eyes *

If someone is wondering: I renamed this topic to a friendlier name. Just it.

Offline Kristian

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Re: Simutrans community: addons.simutrans.com
« Reply #21 on: November 04, 2008, 05:51:23 PM »
@Robofish
I also have a wish: that (non-admin) users cannot delete addons others have uploaded (I just tested).

Offline Kristian

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Re: Simutrans community: addons.simutrans.com
« Reply #22 on: November 04, 2008, 06:24:50 PM »
Do you follow any criteria to include an object in the repository?

Ideally

Include an object if:
  • The object works in-game
  • The object is at the endpoint of its development
  • The object is not included in a main pak, is not part of an object group, and will not be (main pak: e.g. pak 64)

Include groups of objects if:
  • They contain working objects
  • They are not a main pak (when in doubt: include)

Always:
  • Apply common sense

Offline VS

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Re: Simutrans community: addons.simutrans.com
« Reply #23 on: November 04, 2008, 06:31:00 PM »
While we're at this, don't remove all the Haru's stuff because it's in 128. It's likely this won't last long :(

Offline maister

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Re: Simutrans community: addons.simutrans.com
« Reply #24 on: November 04, 2008, 07:05:26 PM »
Wow i see, it was only a impulse needed. But some things i don`t understand very well, because my english is not the best and i have maybe to less insider know how.
To control, if i know it accurately, a summary:
- Robofish upgrade the addon site, with a clearly arranged and better interface and the possibility that all users can upload some addons
- Combuijs take care of maps.simutrans.com

wow.. nice.. thanks.... voiceless.. now what can i do for us?  :D  ok i know.. i`m attend to screenshots.simutrans.com

@Kristian
I`m sorry, i hope i hasn`t overrun you with this topic. I would say to you; thank you very much for help arrange that all!

Offline VS

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Re: Simutrans community: addons.simutrans.com
« Reply #25 on: November 04, 2008, 07:12:38 PM »
Well, if you could do that, it would be great!

IIRC last person to use it was Napik… but I may be wrong. Can there be anyone else, who has the admin login data?

Alternatively, you could save the images, reinstall and reupload. There must have been millions of CPG releases in between, fixing lots of vulnerabilities.
« Last Edit: November 04, 2008, 07:15:21 PM by VS »

Offline vilvoh

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Re: Simutrans community: addons.simutrans.com
« Reply #26 on: November 04, 2008, 11:21:32 PM »
[..] pagination for the addon list
This would be a great improvement. The list of addons is quite long, and It's annoying to be scrolling until you see something interesting.

Another nice thing would be a top ten downloads list on the front page.

You asked for bigger preview images, right? Maybe those should open when you click on the small preview?
That's it. I think there's something done in JS.It's a famous image gallery framework to do exactly that in an easy way.

Other criteria we might consider:
- If the object can be used to fill gaps in any pakset. I mean, there aren't a lot of tourist attractions in pak64, so If somebody develops something for filling that gap, we may consider to include it.
- If the object fits on the pak scale it was develop to.
« Last Edit: November 04, 2008, 11:26:21 PM by vilvoh »

Offline maister

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Re: Simutrans community: addons.simutrans.com
« Reply #27 on: November 05, 2008, 12:01:05 PM »
Only for info.. not that make someone the same work.
I written to japanese simutrans for the permission, that we can also upload their add-ons.

Offline yoshi

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Re: Simutrans community: addons.simutrans.com
« Reply #28 on: November 05, 2008, 01:34:50 PM »
Only for info.. not that make someone the same work.
I written to japanese simutrans for the permission, that we can also upload their add-ons.

Actually Stormoog (or now Kristian?) did the same and some of the addons on Japanese wiki were uploaded also on the addon site.

Offline maister

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Re: Simutrans community: addons.simutrans.com
« Reply #29 on: November 05, 2008, 04:37:32 PM »
Hello Yoshi

Yes there are some "Japanese" addons, but not all. I would also ask Kristian.

Thank you for the hint.

kind regards

Offline Kristian

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Re: Simutrans community: addons.simutrans.com
« Reply #30 on: November 05, 2008, 07:15:52 PM »
Actually Stormoog (or now Kristian?) did the same and some of the addons on Japanese wiki were uploaded also on the addon site.

(I am Stormoog)

Actually, Coo has an account on the addons site, and he uploaded the Japanese addons. You can see which ones are "his" because he has actually made an effort to describe the addons.

I do not know why he did not upload all addons.
« Last Edit: November 05, 2008, 07:18:17 PM by Kristian »

Offline VS

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Re: Simutrans community: addons.simutrans.com
« Reply #31 on: November 05, 2008, 07:58:33 PM »
Maybe he got tired?

Offline z9999

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Re: Simutrans community: addons.simutrans.com
« Reply #32 on: November 05, 2008, 08:09:31 PM »
Each addon on Japanese wiki owned by each artist.
If someone want to publish on the other site, please get permission of each artist.

Offline vilvoh

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Re: Simutrans community: addons.simutrans.com
« Reply #33 on: November 14, 2008, 08:35:41 AM »
Well, Kristian has gave me access to addons site. I don't know if Combuijs has access, too. Anyway, I would like to contribute for improving the repository but imho, we need to carry out some basic tasks first:
  • Check current available addons to see which ones work well and which are outdated.
  • Decide if the current category structure is the right one. We have to add a new category for pak96, for example.
  • Gather a group of testers for add-ons (open to all, not only devotees) One of the most annoying task is to test the addons, you have to check if it's balanced or if it has any graphical bug, therefore we need more people to distribute the work load. More people we get, less work for each one.
  • Create a list of admission criteria.
  • Create a list of rejection criteria.
  • Remake the aspect of the site. It's not top priority, and perhaps It's not needed..

BTW, how many devotees would like to join to this soft challenge? we need some testers with experience in Simutrans...

Offline Zeno

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Re: Simutrans community: addons.simutrans.com
« Reply #34 on: November 14, 2008, 08:53:08 AM »
I'm not devotee, but I can offer myself to check if pak128 addons are balanced enough.