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Author Topic: Waypoints act no longer as signals  (Read 15633 times)

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Offline Roads

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Re: Waypoints act no longer as signals
« Reply #35 on: September 05, 2012, 04:43:24 PM »
Just want to throw my two cents in here.  I use a lot of way points for traffic routing but never as anything to do with signaling.  I don't think it is a proper use for them.  Signals should be used for signals. :)

However, I do think a proper use of way points is setting wait times.  Why shouldn't you realistically, be able to tell a bus, truck or train or even a boat to wait at a certain location?  Airplanes, well, no.

Offline isidoro

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Re: Waypoints act no longer as signals
« Reply #36 on: September 05, 2012, 10:16:52 PM »
When I saw one of my trains stop in a waypoint, it came to a surprise for me, and messed all the network, anyway.

It seems more sensible to me that the train continues reserving past the waypoints until the next stop/signal is reached.

Offline Ters

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Re: Waypoints act no longer as signals
« Reply #37 on: September 06, 2012, 04:34:10 AM »
I think there are three possibilities. Please suggest others if I've missed some.
  • Waypoints should work as they do.
  • Waypoints should not work as signals, but platforms still do.
  • Waypoints and stations should not work as signal. Every stop in reservations must be explicitly set by placing a signal, and long-block signals are no longer needed.
Alternative 2 and 3 might be subdivided based on whether waypoints causing the vehicle to change direction should act as signals. It's also a questions if waypoints should allow directions changes outside stations.
I don't know if any of this rules out Roads' wish, which is otherwise a bit on the side. The same goes for how signals work. If these are independent questions, we can agree to one thing at a time and leave the more dividing questions for later.

Offline prissi

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Re: Waypoints act no longer as signals
« Reply #38 on: September 06, 2012, 02:13:51 PM »
3 will break almost any exitent design. I would prefer  2 or 1 (and reversing waypoints as well as station with implicit signals).
« Last Edit: September 06, 2012, 02:21:01 PM by prissi »

Offline Fabio

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Re: Waypoints act no longer as signals
« Reply #39 on: September 06, 2012, 03:30:02 PM »
2 is the best IMHO. And stations should possibly display signals as well as acting like ones. Same should apply to bus stops if built on tram tracks.

Offline Ters

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Re: Waypoints act no longer as signals
« Reply #40 on: September 06, 2012, 04:35:29 PM »
Looks like I didn't include my own preference when writing the three options. When weighing wishes against what's practical, I favour number 2. In keeping with what I'm used to from current Simutrans, as well as the real world, signals at platforms is something one can add manually if one wants. Especially if there is any hope of one-sided signals at a (not too) later time. For practical reasons, I support that waypoints where trains change directions act as signals.

Offline Fabio

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Re: Waypoints act no longer as signals
« Reply #41 on: September 06, 2012, 07:46:30 PM »
Hidden signals can puzzle players. This is the case for both waypoints and stations.
Indeed for practical reasons implicit signals at stations are good both for backward compatibility and for new players who can actually start a railway line without needing to learn about signals. Still, I wish these implicit signals were somehow displayed, e.g. adding a normal signal placing a station or adding a signal graphic to the station graphics.

Offline Ters

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Re: Waypoints act no longer as signals
« Reply #42 on: September 06, 2012, 07:50:45 PM »
Well, for me, signals at platforms shouldn't necessarily be a signal, but also some person coming out with a circular green sign.

Offline Roads

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Re: Waypoints act no longer as signals
« Reply #43 on: September 06, 2012, 11:47:02 PM »
Well guys, as much as I would like to have wait times at way points...if I can't, I can't.  No biggie, I'm living without it now and will do so in the future.  Enough said about that.

As for what Fabio was saying, I agree with him completely about invisible signals.  For a long time after I began playing I hated trains because I could never get them working predictably - no doubt the invisible signals had a lot to do with that.  In fact, until I read this thread I didn't know way points acted as signals.

Offline prissi

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Re: Waypoints act no longer as signals
« Reply #44 on: January 10, 2013, 10:33:47 PM »
Somehow the waypoints no signals have never made it into trunk ...