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Author Topic: Trainsets/Convoys  (Read 3089 times)

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Offline ojii

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Trainsets/Convoys
« on: September 27, 2011, 06:01:37 AM »
Hi everyone.

One thing I noticed after playing simutrans a lot is that I generally use the same combination of vehicles a lot. Eg usually all my intercity trains are the same combination of cars, most metros will be the same etc. It would be nice if I could save my 'favorite' combinations (trainsets) and then instead of manually putting them together every time I add a new train, I can just select a 'set' instead.

From a UI perspective, a new tab would be added in the depot dialog (where now in train depots there is "Passenger Trains", "Electrics", "Locomotives", "Cars") where the sets are stored. Above that a new button would be added "save this composition as a set" to save it (and potentially name it).

Offline Fabio

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Re: Trainsets/Convoys
« Reply #1 on: September 27, 2011, 06:57:28 AM »
I like this idea

Offline Combuijs

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Re: Trainsets/Convoys
« Reply #2 on: September 27, 2011, 07:52:49 AM »
That is indeed the way I play too. Would be a very useful extension!

Offline Vonjo

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Re: Trainsets/Convoys
« Reply #3 on: September 27, 2011, 11:48:57 AM »
You can buy an extra copy of the train for later use, and you can name that convoy.

But if it works across depot, I like it.

Offline Václav

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Re: Trainsets/Convoys
« Reply #4 on: September 27, 2011, 01:28:04 PM »
Vonjo,
what you wrote is very far from idea of ojii. Yes, of course you can buy copy of assembled train - but it is only for one depot and you can use it for multiple buying of vehicles. I use this very often - mostly in road depots but also in rail depots. I simply assemble some train, set line - and after it I buy copies of this if I need more same trains or trucks.

All: I support ojii's idea. It would be quite good - but: it would mean change of depot arrangement.
« Last Edit: October 03, 2011, 08:17:23 PM by VaclavMacurek »

Offline infernalmachine

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Re: Trainsets/Convoys
« Reply #5 on: September 27, 2011, 02:24:01 PM »
I like this idea too.

In fact, it matches perfectly with something I've been thinking about, which is what I'm calling "Virtual Depots", for want of a better term.

The idea is that you could control+click on any build depot icon and get a Virtual Depot to pop up that would be almost identical to actual depots in the game world.  The first use for this would be as a reference to all the vehicles available for that depot type (this is better than a help file because it includes any addons). New players, people new to a pakset, and everyone in the early game (with time-line) currently have to build an actual depot to find out what's available (and if they forget or don't know about electrification of depots, they can't even see all the vehicles they have to choose from).  In the early game it can be a disaster to build, say, a ship depot, only to find out that there are no ships for that kind of cargo yet.

This would also be a perfect place to define the trainsets that ojii is requestng.  Then the only change needed to actual depots would be the ability to load in a particular trainset.

Since you can't actually purchase or schedule a vehicle in the Virtual Depot, those buttons could be re-used for saving trainsets, etc.

There's a bit more to my idea however. One thing would be the ability of time-line game players to inspect future vehicles.  It's would also be useful to be able to pull up extra info about any single vehicle or trailer (namely the date of introduction and of obsolescence, but perhaps anything in the dat file).

This might eventually allow for addon and pakset designers to tinker with the dat file values in game, and the rest of us to cheat if we wanted to :o :o :o  :)

Anyway, just a thought.

Offline Václav

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Re: Trainsets/Convoys
« Reply #6 on: October 04, 2011, 08:06:09 PM »
infernalmachine,
basic idea of virtual depot (to see intro_year of some vehicles that will appear in future) is surely good ... but I am worried about that it is all I understood.

Offline transporter

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Re: Trainsets/Convoys
« Reply #7 on: October 04, 2011, 11:38:30 PM »
Now what if you integrated all depots together? Example: you click on a depot on your screen, build your vehicle and assign route, and whichever depot is closest to the first stop is where the vehicle will show up from. Just like how a vehicle if sent to a depot will go to the nearest one.

If there's a system that can save vehicles between depots, maybe this is possible too.

Offline ӔO

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Re: Trainsets/Convoys
« Reply #8 on: October 05, 2011, 04:06:27 AM »
@transporter
the trouble with that is whether the depot is electrified to start with or if the line the depot is on is connected at all to the route you want to run.

Offline transporter

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Re: Trainsets/Convoys
« Reply #9 on: October 05, 2011, 09:09:42 PM »
Then it would give the same 'vehicle can't find route!' error that usually pops up in that situation. And when a vehicle is sent to a depot, it doesn't just stay put if the nearest isn't connected. It chooses another. So there should be a way to implement that. That's why all depots would be connected. So if one doesn't work, it can choose another

Offline infernalmachine

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Re: Trainsets/Convoys
« Reply #10 on: October 06, 2011, 12:32:58 AM »
Quote
Now what if you integrated all depots together?

But why would that be an important improvement?  Clearly things can go very wrong if you implement this, and it appears that to fix 'no route' issues, the depots would have to become wormholes. magically transporting trains from depot to depot until a proper route is found.

But the current system is fine.  If you need to add convoys to a route, you look up the route in the schedule management (or click on the route in the details window of a station with excess cargo) and then find the nearest depot to the stations on the schedule.  At least this way you know that a train will find a route, since it did so before.

The only hassle is hunting down the correct depot.  Possibly, it might be worth having the route memorize where it was first built, and allow the player to click in schedule management to pull up that depot's window.  But what if you delete that depot, or if you want another depot closer to another station on the route?

I think it's fine as it is.  The idea of a "virtual depot" is simply as a reference for when you have no depots of that kind, and mostly (at least in this thread), as a place to define trainsets -- which is the topic of this thread.

Speaking of trainsets, I'm unclear as to whether these would be defined and stored per game save file, or whether they would be stored per pakset.  If the latter, then how would the game handle convoys that contain parts that haven't yet been introduced (with time-line games)?  Would these be listed (but if you chose one, you'd get some or no convoy parts) or would the data structure for the trainset also record the introduction date of the latest part introduced, and only display the trainset in the list after that date?

I'd assume that people would want these trainsets to carry over from game to game, but implementing that might be a little complicated.

Offline ojii

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Re: Trainsets/Convoys
« Reply #11 on: October 06, 2011, 08:04:48 AM »
Speaking of trainsets, I'm unclear as to whether these would be defined and stored per game save file, or whether they would be stored per pakset.  If the latter, then how would the game handle convoys that contain parts that haven't yet been introduced (with time-line games)?  Would these be listed (but if you chose one, you'd get some or no convoy parts) or would the data structure for the trainset also record the introduction date of the latest part introduced, and only display the trainset in the list after that date?

I'd say per savegame. Yes it would be nice to have them 'globally' but the hassle to define the handful of sets you use for a game isn't that bad I think.