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Author Topic: MaK DE 1002  (Read 31628 times)

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Re: MaK DE 1002
« Reply #35 on: November 25, 2008, 12:58:27 PM »
I tried experimenting with sharpening a bit, you can see the results on the first page, im not quite sure if i should go with that, although it brings out more details. Il tinker with it a bit more!

I made a blend material in the multimaterial, i applied this to all the sides that needed the stripe. Then i added a white material to it, so it would mix them, to get the right mix i used a opacity map, simple black n white, black for what should stay red/orange, white for what should become the stripe.

I selected the objects before the UVmap, then with a mesh select the faces, then a edit mesh, then a UVWmap to get a basic projection, and then i applied the Unwrap UVW to align it out.

Hopes this makes sense, if you have any questions feel free to ask them!

Offline vilvoh

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Re: MaK DE 1002
« Reply #36 on: November 25, 2008, 01:23:53 PM »
So, If I've read correctly, you have used something like two layers, haven't you? The one at the back corresponds to the background color (red, yellow, etc..) and the one at the front is an image you use to apply the white texture using the alpha channel... interesting.

It seems you're using plain colors, however the result is really good. You get contrast and relief in the whole model surface. Which render engine are you using? 3dSmax default? You might try Brazil render engine. I tried it some time ago, and the render results were simply awesome.

Re: MaK DE 1002
« Reply #37 on: November 25, 2008, 02:33:26 PM »
Default scanline render with raytracing, a skylight i added to thescene to provide basic GI, then i add the sun light with a light orange hue.

Yup, you are right about the layers, its a very effective way!

I use some spec with gloss turned down in the colours, so that the light spreads better along the surface of the model!

Yup, Brazil is really powerfull, ive seen some good results with it! Although i havent mastered the standard radiosity/raytrace engine yet! :)

Offline vilvoh

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Re: MaK DE 1002
« Reply #38 on: November 25, 2008, 03:02:16 PM »
Yup, you are right about the layers, its a very effective way!

It's a helpfull technique I sometimes use in Blender, but not always works as it should. There's another one that provides a curious way to apply textures called UVProject Modifier. It may be used with complex models where it's difficult to unwrapp the UV map, but I don't if you can do the same in 3dSMax.

Yup, Brazil is really powerfull, ive seen some good results with it! Although i havent mastered the standard radiosity/raytrace engine yet! :)

I used it with Rhinoceros, another 3D modeling Software, and the results are wOw...it's a pity that It's not compatible with Blender, however we have Yafray.... ;D

Re: MaK DE 1002
« Reply #39 on: November 25, 2008, 03:06:46 PM »
Ah yeah i' ve heard of that one!

I think max has pelt mapping, although i havent tried it yet, im kinda picky on controlling every polygon.

Re: MaK DE 1002
« Reply #40 on: November 25, 2008, 04:29:51 PM »
Vilvoh, how does this look? It indeed looks a bit blurry if you compare them now, but i tried to go with raven's style, and they fit better with those locs without sharpening.

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Re: MaK DE 1002
« Reply #41 on: November 25, 2008, 05:01:10 PM »
Two thumbs up!! bright but with enough contrast. I like the second yellow one starting from the back. I've doubts about the ilumination. In red ones the left side seems more iluminated than the back part, whick is quite dark. In Simutrans the sun comes from South, so the lights positions on the scene must follow that scheme, in every view of the object.

See this diagram:


The rest is very good. Last question, does it fit on 128pak scale? It seems a liitle big

Re: MaK DE 1002
« Reply #42 on: November 25, 2008, 05:40:55 PM »
I dont know, i dont really want to scale it down more, but if it needs to be done.

Please download them and see for yourself, if they need to be smaller then so be it!

The real loc is 13M long.

Offline vilvoh

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Re: MaK DE 1002
« Reply #43 on: November 25, 2008, 08:12:42 PM »
Ok. I'm not a 128pak expert but I've tested it and imho the scale is right.

Re: MaK DE 1002
« Reply #44 on: November 25, 2008, 08:39:00 PM »
Glad to hear so :).

Offline DirrrtyDirk

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Re: MaK DE 1002
« Reply #45 on: November 26, 2008, 12:28:05 PM »
Well, but 13m for length=8 seems a bit out of scale to me

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Re: MaK DE 1002
« Reply #46 on: November 26, 2008, 05:17:15 PM »
If I'm not wrong, the 128 pak scale policy for vehicles is:
  • Each tile is about 20-26m min. and 32m max.
  • For length=8, that corresponds to 16-20m aprox. even 25m in some cases, the recommended length in pixels is arround 32.

Snark's Mak loco length is 62 pixels (almost half a tile) Following the previous guidelines, its real size would be 32-40m.

Re: MaK DE 1002
« Reply #47 on: November 26, 2008, 07:30:15 PM »
Il have to scale it down a bit then! Thanks for helping with the calculations, i just overlayed it on dirks source files.

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Re: MaK DE 1002
« Reply #48 on: November 26, 2008, 09:43:39 PM »
Well, It depends on the real length the cab has, which I can't find right now, but I think so. How large is it? I mean real measures in metres.

Offline DirrrtyDirk

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Re: MaK DE 1002
« Reply #49 on: November 26, 2008, 11:18:40 PM »
Well, personally I use a scale of 1 length unit = 2.5 meters for my Japanese 128 vehicles... and the original in my case is 18.60m long.

But since I only made a new livery for an already existing engine, I stayed with length=8 (even though 7 would have been a little closer to scale... - but with 1.10 m difference to a perfect "7" and just 1.40m to a perfect "8" ... 30cm didn't make that much of a difference, so I stayed with 8 - half a tile - for simplicity.)

For 13 m, a length setting of 5 or 6 (maybe even 7) should be more fitting.
« Last Edit: November 26, 2008, 11:28:54 PM by DirrrtyDirk »

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Re: MaK DE 1002
« Reply #50 on: November 30, 2008, 12:00:09 AM »
In case you want to improve your textures, or just have a good reference, I've found this site. It has good photos from different angles and views that may help you.

Re: MaK DE 1002
« Reply #51 on: November 30, 2008, 11:27:24 AM »
Thanks for the help, im going to scale it again today and see how that works out!

Re: MaK DE 1002
« Reply #52 on: March 06, 2009, 08:44:49 AM »
Ive been messing around a bit more, and im wondering, what size would fit the locomotive best, i made a screenshot from the train depot, you can see serval locs, im thinking about scaling it down a bit so it looks more like the red diesel loc in the middle(about 6 left of the MAK 1002). Any suggestions? Im a bit worried about losing too much detail.

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Re: MaK DE 1002
« Reply #53 on: March 06, 2009, 11:14:09 AM »
Where's the screenshot? ???

Re: MaK DE 1002
« Reply #54 on: March 06, 2009, 12:07:09 PM »
Oeps, forgot to upload it ;D

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Re: MaK DE 1002
« Reply #55 on: March 06, 2009, 12:23:54 PM »
From my point of view, it seems slightly bigger, just two or three pixels, compared with the rest but I think it's OK. Let's wait for pak128 expert's opinion.

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Re: MaK DE 1002
« Reply #56 on: March 06, 2009, 12:44:27 PM »
Yes, it seems to be quite oversized (I would even say more than a couple of pixels). The red diesel loco on the left you mention may be a good reference in size terms. Once solved this, it a really looks like a good work :)

Re: MaK DE 1002
« Reply #57 on: March 07, 2009, 07:52:52 PM »
Cheers, i geuss the red loc is going to be the target size then :). I started working on a Bombardier TRAXX 160 AC, i think its a beauty to watch.

Re: MaK DE 1002
« Reply #58 on: March 11, 2009, 09:34:21 AM »
I have been trying to get it to compile again, but all i see is a bright white triangle in simutrans, what could be causing this? I still save it as a flattened PNG.

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Re: MaK DE 1002
« Reply #59 on: March 11, 2009, 09:39:39 AM »
A screenshot would help..

Re: MaK DE 1002
« Reply #60 on: March 11, 2009, 10:36:03 AM »
Sure, this should do it:


Offline vilvoh

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Re: MaK DE 1002
« Reply #61 on: March 11, 2009, 10:53:47 AM »
Ah!! The famous problem with transparency... It can be easily fixed just cutting and pasting in a new image.

Re: MaK DE 1002
« Reply #62 on: March 11, 2009, 12:43:29 PM »
Yup, worked :) Looks much better scaled down a notch.

EDIT:

How does the scale look on this version? And the detail? I applied a sharpen before scaling it down, which i think gives better results. Although removing the background before scaling was useless, PS applied a small blurred edge on the scaled object. So that is what causing the odd looking line.
« Last Edit: March 11, 2009, 01:20:10 PM by the almighty snark »

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Re: MaK DE 1002
« Reply #63 on: March 11, 2009, 05:07:05 PM »
Scale looks good :)

Offline vilvoh

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Re: MaK DE 1002
« Reply #64 on: March 11, 2009, 10:01:31 PM »
In order to avoid the white edge, try to render it with transparent background (alpha channel)

Re: MaK DE 1002
« Reply #65 on: March 12, 2009, 10:00:17 AM »
Yes, but 3D studiomax still seems to want to blur it with the background. So im messing with the AA properties(it brings out details when sharpening afterwards) and trying to scale it in the renderer instead of doing it in photoshop. No AA doesnt improve it in my oppinion.

Offline vilvoh

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Re: MaK DE 1002
« Reply #66 on: March 12, 2009, 10:07:05 AM »
One silly question: why do you exactly render and then rescale it? why don't you just render it in the proper scale?

Re: MaK DE 1002
« Reply #67 on: March 12, 2009, 10:27:44 AM »
Usually rendering in a high resolution and then rescaling it brings out more detail in photoshop.

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Re: MaK DE 1002
« Reply #68 on: March 12, 2009, 10:41:25 AM »
I'm not agree. In general, rescaling almost always means a lost of detail, no matter if you rescale up or down. Almost all complex rescaling algorithms (cubic, sinc3, etc..) blur the image.

Re: MaK DE 1002
« Reply #69 on: March 12, 2009, 11:14:27 AM »
I dont know what software you are using, but if you use a bicubical sharper or nearest neighbour then it increases the sharpness of the image and definitely doesnt lose as much detail if you were to render it at its original resolution.

Scaling something up indeed does reduce detail and quality.