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A suggested timeline change re: the SingCo and Empire Osaka passenger cars

Started by DanteLives, December 02, 2011, 07:09:21 AM

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I've noticed in a timeline game that there is an odd one-year period where profitable passenger train cars are difficult to obtain. Starting at year 1930, the SingCo passenger car is available with an operating cost of 1.10₵/km for 48 passengers and is easily profitable. Also available is the H-Trans passenger car, but with an operating cost of 8.80₵/km for 90 passengers it's very difficult to make profitable (at least during this time period).

January 1951, the SingCo is retired, but is effectively replaced with the Empire-Osaka passenger car which has an operating cost of 4.30₵/km for 162 passengers.  However, the Empire-Osaka isn't introduced until January 1952 - one year after the SingCo is retired.  So, for one year, only the grossly inefficient H-Trans is available. It's not a big deal, but it'd be nice to close this gap in the timeline.


Are you sure this is pak64? Or was somebody messing up with names on translator?

Anyway, the 90 seating car is very profitable with the faster engines available: The Br03.


Names are reported correctly, that's what I see in 111, too...

For what it's worth, somebody probably saw Hajo->H-trans and reapplied it to Singaporekid->SingCo; same for Osakari->Osaka. A logical conclusion supported by two instances would be that prissi->empire :P

My projects... Tools for messing with Simutrans graphics. Graphic archive - templates and some other stuff for painters. Development logs for most recent information on what is going on. And of course pak128!


Aparently they changed a lot during the last year or so. The Namestring were actually "TPI Lopomo" for Osakari (Osaka feels just plain wrong to me).


Hello DanteLives

Even though the SingCo is retired in 1951 might you still be able to buy new ones? 

In the depot there is a button 'show obsolete'.  Press that and the SingCo re-appears (with a blue bar).  I know I can buy obsolete vehicles in the Pak128 game i am playing. Maybe you can too in the pak set you are using?

Good luck


This can be controlled via If you play with timeline, you must set
allow_buying_obsolete_vehicles = 1
in the But default setting in pak64 is to forbid those.


I didn't know how to get until recently.  (Its not an icon in the game). was a helpful post that got me sorted out. It shows how to make simuconf appear.  So if you follow that advice and get simuconf to work you can use it to alter the allow_buying_obsolete as prissi describes above.  (or turn off timeline!)


Oh, I didn't know about the ability to buy obsolete vehicles. Thanks, I'll have to check that.  My game is past 1952, so it's not an issue right now. But, I'll keep it in mind in the future. On the pak version, I know I'm running 110.0.1 of Simutrans, but I can't really say which pak version it is other than pak64.

Now, Prissi, I saw you mention the Br03 on another message, but I've never found that engine.  The closest I've found is the Br01. It's steam with the following stats: 26.10₵/km, 1670kW, 130km/h.  There's also a Br39, but it only goes to 110km/h and with the Empire F7 (diesel, 105km/h) I have trouble making a profit.  Do I have a bad pak or am I missing something? What kind of engine is the Br03?

[edit: I've found the DB BR 103 and the H-Trans BR103 (both electric and very fast), but they're not around until 1970 and 2014 respectively.]


No the Br01 is the one which is introduced together with the cars in question. Due to the 15% speed bonus you need to have fast connections with those. Then you can make lots of money.


Quote from: prissi on December 02, 2011, 03:42:05 PM
Anyway, the 90 seating car is very profitable with the faster engines available: The Br03 01.
While the 90 seater H-Trans (Passagierwagen) is profitable. I find the 48 seater SingCo (PrPersonenwagen) car to generally be a better choice.

@80% average load, in 1926 a BR39 can pull 7 SingCo, 4 tile length,  total capacity 336, 0.133 cents/passenger-mile profit.
A BR01 can pull 6 H-Trans, 4 length, capacity 540, 0.098 cents/passenger-mile.

BR01-H-Trans hauls 60% more passengers but profit/passenger is only 75% that of the BR39-SingCo convoi. Profit/convoi is 20% better. It only makes sense to use the BR01 convoi when you'd otherwise need to add more infrastructure (track/station tiles with monthly maintenance) to handle adding more BR39 convois to move all the available passengers.

With the speed bonus base speed increasing, by 1938 BR39-SingCo is down to 0.117 c/pm, but BR01-H-Trans is at 0.077, Only 66% of the profit now.

By 1952, SingCo 0.104, H-Trans 0.060, 57%.
But 1952 opens up the Empire-Osaka (TPPassagierwagen) car. BR01 pulling 5 Empire-Osaka, 4 length, 810 capacity, 0.142 c/pm. H-Trans and SingCo obsolete, can't compete with that profit. Br39, 2*Empire-Osaka, 2 length, 324, 0.123 also available for lesser capacity routes.

Reducing the running cost of the H-Trans from 880 to 700 would let it compete with the SingCo more effectively. SingCo still slightly ahead.

Also, why not extend the SingCo retire date to 1952? Doesn't make sense to have that one year gap IMHO.


Extending the dates will be done. Personally I rather use the P8 (br38) or whatever it has become in english. I found this better than the br39 in terms of profit. I am also not sure if the system with the speed bonus revenue has reduced slightly the profit using the Br01 with the cars. I have to look at that again too.


BR38 with 3 SingCo cars returns 0.129 cents/passenger-mile profit in 1922 @80% load.
BR39 with 7 returns 0.140, slightly better, but requires stations of 4 length rather than 2 for the BR38, so higher fixed monthly cost.

If you mean the new speed bonus calculation code, it's reducing profitablility more here than I expected...
BR38 can hit 97km/h out of rated 100, 0.138 c/p-m if it could hit 100. 7% penalty from a mere 3 km/h reduction.
BR39 98km/h. 0.146 @100. 4% penalty.
If these are the expected number/type of cars for these engines, perhaps a small power boost to get them to 100?

BR01 with 6 H-Trans can hit the full 130km/h, with 5 Empire-Osakas it's at 119/120.
Actually most engines hauling a reasonable number of Empire-Osakas are coming up 1-2 km/h short. Maybe put them on a diet? 1-2 tons less weight works.


Apart from their name those number are all based on real world stuff. But one ton might not hurt. The Br01 was balanced for 120 km/h before, since the old track had also 120 km/h max speed and the high speed track is more expensive.

I really need to look at the new numbers again.