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Author Topic: Proof of concept: one-way, two-lane avenues?  (Read 24666 times)

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Offline An_dz

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Re: Proof of concept: one-way, two-lane avenues?
« Reply #35 on: December 13, 2011, 05:48:53 PM »
Graphically, I recommend a split isometric icon, because you need to show the direction of the road in N/S and E/W directions...
I don't think so. Because the one-way I thought on follow the direction the user is dragging, the right-hand and left-hand doesn't matter, always right or left.

Sigh, this is getting to the extension request section again, as everybody just giving his wish and aparently nobody writing code for it ...
I think we need to first set how it will work, or someone will start writing code that will become useless.
Anyway, it's really looking more as Extension Request.

Offline Isaac.Eiland-Hall us

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Re: Proof of concept: one-way, two-lane avenues?
« Reply #36 on: December 13, 2011, 07:35:49 PM »
I don't want to be annoying, so I'm out of this conversation.

Offline prissi

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Re: Proof of concept: one-way, two-lane avenues?
« Reply #37 on: December 13, 2011, 08:17:53 PM »
Its an extension request. This is especially for continue a wishlist. If this is settled, one might think about implementation again, imho. Do not be stopped by my comment, it was and is an extremely tiresome time this autumn by my real life.

Offline TurfIt

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Re: Proof of concept: one-way, two-lane avenues?
« Reply #38 on: December 13, 2011, 08:21:19 PM »
As long as there is no suitable ist_weg_frei, such construction is mood anyway. Imho, wether highway or not: The importance is free of crossings for that way type if ist_weg_frei is not to be touched. Maybe just a new way system type (16 or so) that forbids crossings with it and a second flag (system type 128) for one way.

Still I have troubles on how such a waytype would be allow to neglect any crossing checking and determines which lanes to use.
ist_weg_frei obviously needs to be touched. However, I was thinking to simply branch it leaving the existing logic alone, and adding completely new logic when the car is on the highway.

When you say crossings here, I presume you're referring to a road/road intersection as opposed to a road/something else crossing (crossing_t object) ?


If planned as a new waytype, would it be possible to join several roads to form a 3-lane, 4-lane, etc. highway?
I'm going to say no. Seems that would be another huge headache.
Depending on the scale of the vehicle graphics in the pak, 3 lanes in one tile are possible. So I would like to support that.


Would the problem of crossroads be simpler if only T crosses are allowed?  In fact, in highways, usually there are only T crosses at entrances (two in, one out) and exits (one in, two out).
This is what I was planing. 2 or 3 lane highways tiles that can only connect to the ends of themselves. Much like airport runways work now but allowing curves/hills. A separate 1 lane access road would be the only allowed connection onto the right (or left) side of the highway.


   Besides, T crosses force the use of roundabouts, don't they?
Don't follow this???


One concern has been the behaviour of citycars - randomly driving, wanting to turn right, being stuck in the left lane. Well, I for one will pay the price of watching the vehicle cut across traffic if needed. It's a small price to pay for having two lanes of traffic in the same direction.
Having just worked so hard to eliminate most cases of cars driving through each other, this I don't like!  :D


  And we still have a bug where sometimes trucks/busses will stack on a single tile just after a curve anyway, so... minor point.
Do you have an example of this? And, that doesn't involve waypoints on a curve? (or many many road/rail crossings in a row)


Here's a question: A suggestion was made to try highways first; then worry about city avenues later. Would this be a good step?
Well, that's where I'm headed. Highways are something that's been on my TODO list for a long time. It's slowly making it's way towards the top as I work my way through understanding the entire Simutrans codebase. If someone else would care to implement avenues instead...


I have a graphic question (Is it too early ?) :
<...>
Could we build up this kind of connecting (named "New" on picture)? How vehicules runs on this ?
Early for that detail IMO. It would be nice ultimately to smoothly change lanes, or follow such a sloped road; But for a first start jumping between lanes the way vehicles currently do when overtaking will do.


Imho, this discussion turned into some kind of christmas wish list.

Discussion about graphics, UI, etc, are quite useless, if there is no single line of code written.
Wishlists are good! Some discussion is always helpful in getting other peoples' opinions on how things should work.
And, there's more than a single line of code already.  ;)   Albeit still no where near enough/ready.

The vehicle movement logic is what I've played with already. I can relatively easily (hah!) take care of that.
The way builder / graphical end of things is where I'm still rather cloudy. I simply haven't done much with that part of the code yet...


I don't want to be annoying, so I'm out of this conversation.
Unless you're planning your future comments to be annoying, please stick around. Input is good.

Offline Markohs

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Re: Proof of concept: one-way, two-lane avenues?
« Reply #39 on: December 13, 2011, 09:16:03 PM »
ok, why don't we make a draft of all of this? I can make one, accept suggestions/proposals/comments from the developers and reach to a decision of where do we want to go and will implement? If everybody agrees I'll elaborate the document from the comments so far. Or another person that wants to do it, I don't care. :)

We could use IgorElizer and An_dz posts as base for the document.
« Last Edit: December 13, 2011, 09:21:43 PM by Markohs »

Offline Isaac.Eiland-Hall us

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Re: Proof of concept: one-way, two-lane avenues?
« Reply #40 on: December 13, 2011, 10:05:35 PM »
Having just worked so hard to eliminate most cases of cars driving through each other, this I don't like!  :D

Oh, I just meant it was mentioned previously as a reason not to work on this sort of thing, so I was hoping that wouldn't prevent work now.... I'm excited to hear that it's mostly solved already. :D

Quote
Do you have an example of this? And, that doesn't involve waypoints on a curve? (or many many road/rail crossings in a row)

I had it on a saved game - I'll find it later (not at home right now). It was a simple truck route between factories; It wasn't a 180 degree; I think it was just a 90 degree---anyway, I'll get the saved game later tonight.

Offline IgorEliezer br

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Re: Proof of concept: one-way, two-lane avenues?
« Reply #41 on: December 14, 2011, 12:43:31 AM »
O hi there! 8)

Now this turned into a discussion about the discussion, let me say something about it:

I don't know why the worry about forum members dishing out and commenting ideas in a topic publicly open. I haven't seen members demanding, but just showing their interest and ideas on the most wanted ever, almost a taboo, feature for Simutrans. And I couldn't expect another kind of reaction from Simutrans gamers.

As in any other public discussion, it's expected that something will derail or go beyond the boundaries. If something is too early for discussion, just say so; I believe our members will comprehend.

And the people who are interested in implementing the feature (most welcome), just pick up what is useful for now and leave (or just ignore if absurd) other stuff to be handled later on, and get along.

Me just saying.... YAY for the most welcome feature ever :D
« Last Edit: December 14, 2011, 04:44:41 AM by IgorEliezer »

Offline isidoro

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Re: Proof of concept: one-way, two-lane avenues?
« Reply #42 on: December 14, 2011, 01:22:52 AM »
@prissi: my first idea about this post was not an extension request exactly (something like: "I would like to see this in the game.  Please, code it").  It all came because I thought that this desirable new feature seemed to me quite simple to implement (based on my limited experience with the overtaking patch).  It was more like a "what do you people that usually work with the code think about this?  Am I missing something?"

@all: then, this all brainstorming came, which I think it is marvelous, and shows that people are really interested in a feature like this (and became sort of an extension request/wishlist)...  No problem, imho, much on the contrary.

The problem, as An_dz pointed out, is that one cannot start coding if we don't know what to code.  My proposal is to follow a more formal, computer scientish, way of doing things...  We are on the right path.  After the brainstorming, first, let the leaders of the project define what is wanted.  Second, plan several partial simple goals/steps aiming to the final solution.  Third, while advancing step by step, replan when necessary.

For me, a project like this is too much, specially without help, but if put it clearly maybe a partial step towards a known goal is feasible.

It would be like a new thread (development project) with a first post with requirements specification, milestones, and development...

Addendum: Igor was quicker than me typing and his post went first while writing mine.  If I accidentally touched a controversial topic, I'm sorry.  I'm not very lucky with this, I guess...  I'm not that old in the ST community...


Offline mEGa

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Re: Proof of concept: one-way, two-lane avenues?
« Reply #43 on: December 14, 2011, 05:36:01 AM »

The problem, as An_dz pointed out, is that one cannot start coding if we don't know what to code.  My proposal is to follow a more formal, computer scientish, way of doing things...  We are on the right path.  After the brainstorming, first, let the leaders of the project define what is wanted.  Second, plan several partial simple goals/steps aiming to the final solution.  Third, while advancing step by step, replan when necessary.

For me, a project like this is too much, specially without help, but if put it clearly maybe a partial step towards a known goal is feasible.

It would be like a new thread (development project) with a first post with requirements specification, milestones, and development...

I'm completely agree with you. Imho, brainstoming is good and this feature could be a big step for game, but I understand that will be an hard work for developpers.

Offline Dwachs

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Re: Proof of concept: one-way, two-lane avenues?
« Reply #44 on: December 14, 2011, 06:25:54 AM »
I volunteer to take care of possibly arising clipping errors as I am familiar with that part of the code.

Offline Isaac.Eiland-Hall us

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Re: Proof of concept: one-way, two-lane avenues?
« Reply #45 on: December 14, 2011, 06:38:55 AM »
I volunteer to be a cheerleader for it, since that's about all I'm useful for. hehehe

Offline Fabio

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Re: Proof of concept: one-way, two-lane avenues?
« Reply #46 on: December 14, 2011, 08:24:30 AM »
I volunteer for road graphics in 128, when they'll be required :P

Offline isidoro

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Re: Proof of concept: one-way, two-lane avenues?
« Reply #47 on: December 14, 2011, 11:11:43 PM »
I volunteer to be a cheerleader for it, since that's about all I'm useful for. hehehe

Less is nothing...  ;)   I'd rather be a successful high-school wrestler than a dull coder, though...

I suspect that I should volunteer for something...  :P   Oh, dear!
Well, I volunteer to try to write a set of agreed milestones(1) and goal(s), to submit to the head developers for approval before time for coding is started...

__________
(1) In fact, I would call them yardstones, since this is not such a big project, isn't is it?

 

Offline Isaac.Eiland-Hall us

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Re: Proof of concept: one-way, two-lane avenues?
« Reply #48 on: December 15, 2011, 01:06:59 AM »
By that measure, they should be meterstones. :)

Offline Dwachs

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Re: Proof of concept: one-way, two-lane avenues?
« Reply #49 on: December 15, 2011, 06:18:42 AM »
(1) In fact, I would call them yardstones, since this is not such a big project, isn't is it?
It might not be a big project as the expected outcome is small compared to all the game's features, but I expect to be a big project in terms of implementation time needed.

Offline mEGa

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Re: Proof of concept: one-way, two-lane avenues?
« Reply #50 on: December 15, 2011, 06:32:41 AM »
I'm volunteer to design road signs (an alternative to road arrows...?)  or/and help Fabio if necessary ;-)

Offline VS

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Re: Proof of concept: one-way, two-lane avenues?
« Reply #51 on: December 15, 2011, 11:29:02 AM »
Please do not forget pak64!

(Eh, now I get to be the volunteer, right?)

Offline mEGa

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Re: Proof of concept: one-way, two-lane avenues?
« Reply #52 on: December 15, 2011, 11:36:02 AM »
I can try to create for pak64, why not ;-)

Offline IgorEliezer br

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Re: Proof of concept: one-way, two-lane avenues?
« Reply #53 on: December 15, 2011, 03:46:00 PM »
It might not be a big project as the expected outcome is small compared to all the game's features, but I expect to be a big project in terms of implementation time needed.
Dwachs, he was just trying to seem modest. ;D

Offline isidoro

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Re: Proof of concept: one-way, two-lane avenues?
« Reply #54 on: December 15, 2011, 11:55:42 PM »
In fact, I wasn't.  8)

Now, more seriously. I've reread all posts, trying to make sense of all.  I plan now to take a look at the relevant code to further understand some comments by prissi, Dwachs and TurfIt and confront crude reality.  After that, I'll make a proposal.  By the way,

ok, why don't we make a draft of all of this? I can make one, accept suggestions/proposals/comments [...]

If you don't mind, give me some days to try to do it.  If I don't succeed, I pass the relay to you, to see if you are luckier...

Offline Markohs

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Re: Proof of concept: one-way, two-lane avenues?
« Reply #55 on: December 16, 2011, 02:12:02 PM »
ok ;)

Offline IgorEliezer br

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« Last Edit: January 08, 2012, 04:32:59 AM by IgorEliezer »

Offline rsdworker

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Re: Proof of concept: one-way, two-lane avenues?
« Reply #57 on: January 17, 2012, 11:06:20 PM »
sounds good idea so that's will be great and useful for one way and motorways