The International Simutrans Forum

 

Author Topic: Older residential blocks  (Read 10285 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline Fabio

  • Devotee
  • Administrator
  • *
  • Posts: 2898
  • The Pak128 Guy
    • Visit me on Facebook
  • Languages: EN, IT, RO, FR
Older residential blocks
« on: December 29, 2011, 05:31:33 PM »
Exploiting the script for modern blocks, I tried also a quick render for older (1800-1950) blocks.
 
This is the very first preview: roofs are missing, only one color scheme is in use.
Max height will be 7 floors, I believe. Probably each floor should be 1 to 3 px taller.
 

Offline VS

  • Senior Plumber (Devotee)
  • Moderator
  • *
  • Posts: 4856
  • Vladimír Slávik
    • VS's Simutrans site
  • Languages: CS,EN
Re: Older residential blocks
« Reply #1 on: December 29, 2011, 07:13:30 PM »
This might be specific to culture and place, but I think these old time houses would be quite different. Currently, they are just a flat wall in the front, with some balconies. In my version of "historical block of flats", these tried to look a bit more decorative or elaborate in front, glorious even, while the back had these things, they were used to access the flats actually. Often a huge mess of stairs, interconnected balconies and whatever, laundry being dried etc... Visually very diverse.

Here's a bunch of pictures that fit what I think of (both front and backyard sides). Take that as just one input, perhaps this was very different in other countries...

http://i.idnes.cz/08/053/gal/DP236001_155547_374945.jpg
http://img.ihned.cz/attachment.php/720/19117720/s4GSaoFRlLWANgrB0qKDv3u2p5cUwnbV/090116_12ap.jpg
http://www.zababov.cz/uploads/pics/faller6.JPG
http://www.zababov.cz/uploads/pics/artitec03.JPG
http://www.hrady.cz/data_g/6184/59733.jpg
http://omniaprojekt.cz/foto/koliste1.jpg
http://omniaprojekt.cz/foto/cejl2.jpg
http://www.photoextract.com/cs/foto/242052.html

Offline Fabio

  • Devotee
  • Administrator
  • *
  • Posts: 2898
  • The Pak128 Guy
    • Visit me on Facebook
  • Languages: EN, IT, RO, FR
Re: Older residential blocks
« Reply #2 on: December 29, 2011, 07:44:28 PM »
I see. Well, for sure roofs will make them grander, and the extra 3 px par floor (higher ceilings, as it was used) will make room for more stuccoes. The backside will be a single balcony as large as the whole floor.

Offline missingpiece

  • *
  • Posts: 100
  • Languages: DE, PT, EN, FR
Re: Older residential blocks
« Reply #3 on: December 29, 2011, 09:38:06 PM »
Here's a bunch of pictures that fit what I think of (both front and backyard sides). Take that as just one input, perhaps this was very different in other countries...
Pictures as if I would be walking through Berlin streets. Very similar style used for facades here, also for houses reconstructed ( after WW II ) and now renovated. Typical height is 4-5 floors. Most of the houses here are not singletons, I would like to add : they mostly stand wall to wall in the inner city. That is best reprsented by the b/w picture with the destroyed house on the left.

Offline sdog

  • Devotee
  • *
  • Posts: 2052
Re: Older residential blocks
« Reply #4 on: December 30, 2011, 12:40:52 AM »
while up to 7 stories is quite realistic for some european cities, i should like to suggest to go for the generic buildings to 5 stories maximum. Perhaps having the bulk at 4 stories height. Especially when you increase the ceiling height. With larger buildings the cities in 1900 would look too much like a modern high rise city.

This is mostly due to the narrow grid of roads, the european way to build was around the edges of a block, which was much wider and longer than high.

Offline Václav

  • Devotee
  • *
  • Posts: 3324
  • formerly VaclavMacurek
  • Languages: CZ, EN
Re: Older residential blocks
« Reply #5 on: December 30, 2011, 10:52:28 AM »
And many czech residential blocks had been built only with three stories.

Offline Fabio

  • Devotee
  • Administrator
  • *
  • Posts: 2898
  • The Pak128 Guy
    • Visit me on Facebook
  • Languages: EN, IT, RO, FR
Re: Older residential blocks
« Reply #6 on: December 30, 2011, 11:06:46 AM »
Thank you all for the feedback.
 
I added 3 new screenshots.
Changes:
- Stub of roofing (needs colors and details)
- more color schemes
- a few more stuccoes
- taller floors (18 px -- PD's are 20!!!)
- floors are now: basement + 1 to 6 regular floors + roof (which will contain attics as well)
 

 

 

Offline missingpiece

  • *
  • Posts: 100
  • Languages: DE, PT, EN, FR
Re: Older residential blocks
« Reply #7 on: December 30, 2011, 12:00:57 PM »
Fabio, did I understand correctly that you are trying to create a house rendering algorithm for procedural generation of building graphics ?

More comments directly related to the new screenshots :
- Floors could be taller and at least 3 pixels sacrificed to stucco ornaments
- The floor structure and balcony style in general, I would say, can best be seen in VS's picture link number 4 (artitec03.JPG). In your screenshots, the first floor is "empty". However, typically in my area, the first "full" floor would be half a stairs up, the "belle étage", floor 1.5 if you want, which would be a good chunk higher than floors 2-4. No floor on "ground level" but a "souterrain" half a stairs down either as appartment related basement, or with access stairs from outside allowing small workshop businesses inside. In either case, just bare slots as windows with their lower border on street level.
- I would prefer the balconies to be more solid in your algorithm, and I would definitely not spill the balconies zig-zagged across the facade. Like you can see in VS's picture link number 1 : typically, you would have that middle section of the house being built stand out, starting on floor 1.5 or 2 and going up to floor 3/4 like a multi-floor oriel. It can have concrete balconies on its side, and the top full floor of the house ( just under the roof section ) would have a balcony ontop of that oriel piece. You can guess that from VS's picture link number 3 (faller6.jpg).
- the roof of 18th century houses in Berlin is typically a short but steep edge ( roof tiles or copper/tin ) and then a tar covered flat area with the slim brick section of chimneys sticking out ( one chimney per floor, sometimes per room ! ) and then round metal slots sticking out of the brick section. Have you seen in Walt Disney "Marry Poppins" the adventure night on London's roof top and the Chimney Sweep Step dance ? THAT's your roofs. Or see VS's last picture link.

I was trying to a bit poetic to transmit the picture. Use of these remarks whatever you deem fit. Sorry, I didn't yet take pictures myself, but I could actually do that from at home later today; I would consider my apartment block "typical" and its facade actually is a protected architectural city monument.

Offline Václav

  • Devotee
  • *
  • Posts: 3324
  • formerly VaclavMacurek
  • Languages: CZ, EN
Re: Older residential blocks
« Reply #8 on: December 30, 2011, 01:28:22 PM »
And one small suggestion: this type of houses have some shops on earth level (by main door of house) - or else useful facilities - office of police, doctor and so on. So, you can use my unfinished project of three-storied house as pattern.

Offline VS

  • Senior Plumber (Devotee)
  • Moderator
  • *
  • Posts: 4856
  • Vladimír Slávik
    • VS's Simutrans site
  • Languages: CS,EN
Re: Older residential blocks
« Reply #9 on: December 30, 2011, 04:47:34 PM »
The ornaments are still a bit weak, in terms of visibility. Just look at your own screenshots and compare with the other buildings :) They have a very nice quality, like rmax's work, but are not defined enough. Windows are great, though!

Otherwise I agree with both Václav and misingpiece about ground floors - small commerce or "offset" with cellars is rather typical.

Front balconies are really not the thing, though. Missingpiece again nailed that better than I could, so I'll defer to his description there. One thing, though - we are both talking about style used in central Europe. If things were different in the Mediterranean region, then that would explain this radical difference between your idea and what we linked.

Offline Václav

  • Devotee
  • *
  • Posts: 3324
  • formerly VaclavMacurek
  • Languages: CZ, EN
Re: Older residential blocks
« Reply #10 on: December 30, 2011, 05:12:49 PM »
Front balconies are really not the thing, though.
Yes, front balconies are very rare in central Europe - and it is irelevant if it is house built of concrete panels (built mostly between fifties and eighties of twentieth century) or if it is house built of bricks. Almost every time it is directed to yard (if something similar is on that other side of house).

But sometime it is hard to recognise what is front side of house - and what is back side. It is that problem - to say what is front side and what is back side - regardless of as front side is mostly taken side directed to main road. And in this case (and case of Simutrans) it is clear that balconies are on back side - where laundry/clothes are protected from dust and smoke of road transportation.

Offline wlindley

  • Devotee
  • *
  • Posts: 1064
    • Hacking for fun and profit since 1977
  • Languages: EN, DE
Re: Older residential blocks
« Reply #11 on: December 30, 2011, 05:52:24 PM »
Perhaps place the balcony buildings only in the "Mediterranean" climate zone?

Offline missingpiece

  • *
  • Posts: 100
  • Languages: DE, PT, EN, FR
Re: Older residential blocks
« Reply #12 on: December 30, 2011, 06:14:34 PM »
And in this case (and case of Simutrans) it is clear that balconies are on back side - where laundry/clothes are protected from dust and smoke of road transportation.
Interesting. Just the other way around in Berlin and what I've seen in Paris : if at all the house ( built 1850-1920 ) has balconies, then they are to be proud, see the street, they were a symbol of distinction. To the back, all houses around the block form mostly a small yard, much too narrow, dark and unpleasant for balconies; only few back yards are spaceous enough.

Offline Václav

  • Devotee
  • *
  • Posts: 3324
  • formerly VaclavMacurek
  • Languages: CZ, EN
Re: Older residential blocks
« Reply #13 on: December 30, 2011, 07:34:07 PM »
??? Could you link any photo of such houses? It would be very helpful.

Offline prissi

  • Developer
  • Administrator
  • *
  • Posts: 10633
  • Languages: De,EN,JP
Re: Older residential blocks
« Reply #14 on: December 30, 2011, 11:26:25 PM »
I am more concerned that a transportation game in such an area would be very hard to play as there transparent or minimized buildings would be mandantory. But that would loose somehow the point of such buildings, wouldn't it?

Offline missingpiece

  • *
  • Posts: 100
  • Languages: DE, PT, EN, FR
Re: Older residential blocks
« Reply #15 on: December 31, 2011, 03:20:03 PM »
I took pictures from out of my appartment and put them to my flickr foto stream. You see facades of houses on the other side of the street, backyard (in Paris, they may be as small as 1 square meter) and chimney impressions.

None of these houses have what I called "bel étage" (figured that étage is masculine, so the spelling of belle was wrong) in my earlier post. They all have retail on ground floor and first floor is even with ground floor.

Offline sdog

  • Devotee
  • *
  • Posts: 2052
Re: Older residential blocks
« Reply #16 on: January 01, 2012, 04:09:21 AM »
@missingpiece
if you hadn't said it's in paris... it looks almost exaclty like berlin, near kottbuser tor or schoenhauser strasse ;-)

Offline missingpiece

  • *
  • Posts: 100
  • Languages: DE, PT, EN, FR
Re: Older residential blocks
« Reply #17 on: January 01, 2012, 12:55:59 PM »
It is Berlin !  8)

My intention with the Paris remark was commenting that back yards in Paris can be as small as pitty holes of 1 square meter...  :o

Offline YuriCrispiOld

  • *
  • Posts: 7
  • Languages: EN,IT
Re: Older residential blocks
« Reply #18 on: July 07, 2012, 08:33:54 AM »
Is there download link to these? I need these so fast

Offline greenling

  • Lounger
  • *
  • Posts: 1728
  • Simutransarchology it my hobby!
  • Languages: DE,EN
Re: Older residential blocks
« Reply #19 on: July 07, 2012, 01:00:01 PM »
arturom
from those building gives no downloadling those Building are under devlopemt.
you must wait until fabio be finsh it with the devlopemt.