The International Simutrans Forum

 

Author Topic: [Closed] New Simutrans-Experimental server (bridgewater-brunel.me.uk)  (Read 62754 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline jamespetts gb

  • Simutrans-Extended project coordinator
  • Devotee
  • *
  • Posts: 18721
  • Cake baker
    • Bridgewater-Brunel
  • Languages: EN
Re: New Simutrans-Experimental server
« Reply #70 on: January 16, 2012, 12:59:24 AM »
I get my hosting from Heart Internet. The price efficiency comes from the ability to customise the specifications: I save a lot of money by specifying the lowest amount of hard drive space (50Gb), and only one processor core (as Simutrans is single threaded), which means that I am able to get the server for £30/month including VAT.

Edit: Note that I have seen lots of people complaining about them failing to cancel services on request, although not so many about poor quality of service, so I took the precaution of using a debit card that was going to expire in April to pay.

Edit 2: Incidentally, the problem with the server game appears to be an infinite loop when passengers unload at Crowminster to transfer to/from the dock by foot - for some reason that I have not yet been able to diagnose, the passengers seem to circle endlessly between the two, which eventually creates a stack overflow.

Offline ӔO

  • Devotees (Inactive)
  • *
  • Posts: 2345
  • Hopefully helpful
  • Languages: en, jp
Re: New Simutrans-Experimental server
« Reply #71 on: January 16, 2012, 01:10:17 AM »
while we are slightly off topic, I figure I might as well mention for james to check out the infrastructure costs for his freight company.
it's pretty close to 1/3 of my pax company no where near as profitable :/

I think there might be a need for road freight station with half the capacity and maintenance.

Offline jamespetts gb

  • Simutrans-Extended project coordinator
  • Devotee
  • *
  • Posts: 18721
  • Cake baker
    • Bridgewater-Brunel
  • Languages: EN
Re: New Simutrans-Experimental server
« Reply #72 on: January 16, 2012, 01:41:08 AM »
Hmm - my infrastructure maintenance is 1,090c to your 22,607c - are you sure? My margin is very low because my revenue is presently tiny.

Offline ӔO

  • Devotees (Inactive)
  • *
  • Posts: 2345
  • Hopefully helpful
  • Languages: en, jp
Re: New Simutrans-Experimental server
« Reply #73 on: January 16, 2012, 01:57:40 AM »
My mistake, I actually meant the "next month fixed cost" field. The "Inf. maintenance" field is just "fixed cost * (months in operation)".
my fixed cost is 3,380c while yours is 1090c

your operating profit is roughly equal to your inf. maintenance, which means you are losing approximately 1090c/mo. or exactly your fixed cost.

Offline jamespetts gb

  • Simutrans-Extended project coordinator
  • Devotee
  • *
  • Posts: 18721
  • Cake baker
    • Bridgewater-Brunel
  • Languages: EN
Re: New Simutrans-Experimental server
« Reply #74 on: January 16, 2012, 02:13:30 AM »
Hmm. Do you have any suggestions for an appropriate early loading bay?
« Last Edit: January 16, 2012, 02:40:13 AM by jamespetts »

Offline ӔO

  • Devotees (Inactive)
  • *
  • Posts: 2345
  • Hopefully helpful
  • Languages: en, jp
Re: New Simutrans-Experimental server
« Reply #75 on: January 16, 2012, 02:34:54 AM »
Hmm, well, I was thinking there was a lack of something in between.
There's the staging post, that is quite good for dropping off goods, due to its low cost and capacity (12).

Then there is the cargo bay that holds 128 and the station extensions that also hold 128.
I'm thinking the cargo bay can be halved in cost, maintenance and capacity.
Maybe knock off 1/4 of the cost and maintenance for the freight station extensions.

Offline jamespetts gb

  • Simutrans-Extended project coordinator
  • Devotee
  • *
  • Posts: 18721
  • Cake baker
    • Bridgewater-Brunel
  • Languages: EN
Re: New Simutrans-Experimental server
« Reply #76 on: January 16, 2012, 02:40:56 AM »
I think that I have fixed the crash bug, which fix is pushed to my 10.x branch; could those who are able to compile the code re-test in single player mode? I shall not be able to restart the server until I have put this fix into a new release, and I might as well take the opportunity to fix another bug or two that has come to my notice in the meantime, but hopefully I shall be able to get the server running again in a day or two.

Thank you for all your help in testing!

(And AEO - do you have any ideas for a real life prototype for such a thing?)

Offline ӔO

  • Devotees (Inactive)
  • *
  • Posts: 2345
  • Hopefully helpful
  • Languages: en, jp
Re: New Simutrans-Experimental server
« Reply #77 on: January 16, 2012, 03:01:30 AM »
I highly suspect that everything was simply loaded by manual labour.
In the case of coal, it seems the wagon would tip over backwards (like a dumper truck tipping its dumper) so that people could shovel coal into the back.

I think you could simply recycle the base level goods siding from rail.

Offline rsdworker

  • *
  • Posts: 281
Re: New Simutrans-Experimental server
« Reply #78 on: January 16, 2012, 05:06:25 PM »
Hmm. Do you have any suggestions for an appropriate early loading bay?
the early days - its was just stageposts for loading and unloading things - more simllar to modern street loading bay

Offline jamespetts gb

  • Simutrans-Extended project coordinator
  • Devotee
  • *
  • Posts: 18721
  • Cake baker
    • Bridgewater-Brunel
  • Languages: EN
Re: New Simutrans-Experimental server
« Reply #79 on: January 16, 2012, 05:16:22 PM »
Perhaps the early staging post can be like the rail siding with some boxes and other gubbins piled up nearby?

Offline ojii

  • *
  • Posts: 149
  • Languages: EN, DE, JA
Re: New Simutrans-Experimental server
« Reply #80 on: January 16, 2012, 09:20:39 PM »
I think that I have fixed the crash bug, which fix is pushed to my 10.x branch; could those who are able to compile the code re-test in single player mode? I shall not be able to restart the server until I have put this fix into a new release, and I might as well take the opportunity to fix another bug or two that has come to my notice in the meantime, but hopefully I shall be able to get the server running again in a day or two.

Thank you for all your help in testing!

(And AEO - do you have any ideas for a real life prototype for such a thing?)

Could you link to that branch?

Offline prissi

  • Developer
  • Administrator
  • *
  • Posts: 9519
  • Languages: De,EN,JP
Re: New Simutrans-Experimental server
« Reply #81 on: January 16, 2012, 09:52:39 PM »
About the earlier comments on how you selected the smallest server. YOu seemed to have selected a virtual server. The CPU you get on a virtual server is changing. Last year a group in the german forum were using a virtual server and run into ocasional troubles with large maps; even though most of the time everything was fine.

Offline rsdworker

  • *
  • Posts: 281
Re: New Simutrans-Experimental server
« Reply #82 on: January 16, 2012, 09:59:06 PM »
About the earlier comments on how you selected the smallest server. YOu seemed to have selected a virtual server. The CPU you get on a virtual server is changing. Last year a group in the german forum were using a virtual server and run into ocasional troubles with large maps; even though most of the time everything was fine.
sounds that what i was experincing - maybe needs a better server idk

Offline jamespetts gb

  • Simutrans-Extended project coordinator
  • Devotee
  • *
  • Posts: 18721
  • Cake baker
    • Bridgewater-Brunel
  • Languages: EN
Re: New Simutrans-Experimental server
« Reply #83 on: January 16, 2012, 11:07:53 PM »
The branch is here. It is indeed a virtual server that I am using - a dedicated server would not be adequate value for money. What exactly do you mean when you refer to the CPU on a virtual server changing; and how does that affect Simutrans?

Out of interest, Sdog conducted some very useful tests and found that he was getting far more desyncs in Windows XP than in Windows 7 or that dustNbone was getting in Linux, the latter of which systems were (aside from the crash, which I think that I have now fixed) rather stable.

Offline sdog

  • Devotee
  • *
  • Posts: 2039
Re: New Simutrans-Experimental server
« Reply #84 on: January 16, 2012, 11:13:59 PM »
"Sdog conducted some very useful tests and found that he was getting far more desyncs in Windows XP than in Windows 7"

you must have confused me with someone else, i never managed to get simutrans running on windows. (haven't tried hard though)

Offline jamespetts gb

  • Simutrans-Extended project coordinator
  • Devotee
  • *
  • Posts: 18721
  • Cake baker
    • Bridgewater-Brunel
  • Languages: EN
Re: New Simutrans-Experimental server
« Reply #85 on: January 16, 2012, 11:25:36 PM »
Oops - sorry! Must have been AEO...

Offline ojii

  • *
  • Posts: 149
  • Languages: EN, DE, JA
Re: New Simutrans-Experimental server
« Reply #86 on: January 16, 2012, 11:59:19 PM »
I think that I have fixed the crash bug, which fix is pushed to my 10.x branch; could those who are able to compile the code re-test in single player mode? I shall not be able to restart the server until I have put this fix into a new release, and I might as well take the opportunity to fix another bug or two that has come to my notice in the meantime, but hopefully I shall be able to get the server running again in a day or two.

Thank you for all your help in testing!

(And AEO - do you have any ideas for a real life prototype for such a thing?)

re-test what exactly? it compiles fine and everything. but what exactly should we look for?

Offline ӔO

  • Devotees (Inactive)
  • *
  • Posts: 2345
  • Hopefully helpful
  • Languages: en, jp
Re: New Simutrans-Experimental server
« Reply #87 on: January 17, 2012, 01:31:56 AM »
Oops - sorry! Must have been AEO...
yep, that was me.

both of my machines should be more than adequate to run large maps of simutrans ex, so it is a bit of a mystery to me.

Offline dustNbone

  • *
  • Posts: 99
Re: New Simutrans-Experimental server
« Reply #88 on: January 17, 2012, 01:40:55 AM »
I compiled the 10.x branch and ran the savegame from the server game, seems to work normally.  Looks like it was my boat link that killed the server, I've never really played with the passengers transferring on foot feature, but it seems to get the job done.

Also, is the "Make Stop Public" option gone?  I think I get the access rights options but I did like the idea of being able to just make a hub public without allowing access to my entire network, which is what I think the access options in the player menu do.  Might be missing something though, not actually 100% sure on how it all works. 

Offline jamespetts gb

  • Simutrans-Extended project coordinator
  • Devotee
  • *
  • Posts: 18721
  • Cake baker
    • Bridgewater-Brunel
  • Languages: EN
Re: New Simutrans-Experimental server
« Reply #89 on: January 17, 2012, 09:41:57 AM »
Ojii - the idea was to test for crashes or any weird side effects of the fix. Thank you for compiling it, though, and thank you to dustNbone for testing also.

AEO - I wonder whether the Windows XP problems come from the method in which the platform's previous inability to run Simutrans when compiled with IPv6 capability was fixed?

dustNbone - the "make stop public" feature was set in 10.4 to be only available to the public player if a particular option in simuconf.tab was selected, which has been added to the simuconf.tab for Pak128.Britain-Ex 0.8.3. This is because it is not realistic for a company to be able to pass on the costs of its infrastructure maintenance to the government with impunity. The access function is intended to have the same ultimate effect. If you want a player to be able to access part of your network, you should generally discuss this with the player, either in the in-game chat or in the forum. You and the other player should agree the conditions of the access, including what part(s) of the network should be accessed. If the other player breaches the agreement, then you can withdraw access (with or without a warning, at your discretion). This, I think, is a far more satisfactory system than the "make public" tool (which is still available to the public player).

Offline prissi

  • Developer
  • Administrator
  • *
  • Posts: 9519
  • Languages: De,EN,JP
Re: New Simutrans-Experimental server
« Reply #90 on: January 17, 2012, 12:19:49 PM »
The IPv6 code just affects the initialisation. However, if you have set up a IPv6 tunnel on XP, the traffic will try to use it prefrably. MAybe the windows 7 did not use it. Since a tunnel is overhead and need extrat latency, it could cause more freuqent desyncs. OTher than that there are not really much OS dependent code that should relate to desyncs. Maybe sound support makes a difference between both.

Offline jamespetts gb

  • Simutrans-Extended project coordinator
  • Devotee
  • *
  • Posts: 18721
  • Cake baker
    • Bridgewater-Brunel
  • Languages: EN
Re: New Simutrans-Experimental server
« Reply #91 on: January 20, 2012, 01:51:05 AM »
This server is now back up, running Simutrans-Experimental 10.6. See here for a download link.

Offline Milko

  • Devotee
  • *
  • Posts: 829
Re: New Simutrans-Experimental server
« Reply #92 on: January 20, 2012, 06:35:13 PM »
Hello

I'm playng as "Italy transport".

 :)

Giuseppe

Offline ӔO

  • Devotees (Inactive)
  • *
  • Posts: 2345
  • Hopefully helpful
  • Languages: en, jp
Re: New Simutrans-Experimental server
« Reply #93 on: January 21, 2012, 03:51:55 AM »
there seems to have been some sort of fatal error with the game.
the server itself is up, but it looks like the game has crashed.

it says something about
Code: [Select]
minivec_tpl<T>::[]
index out of bounds: 7 not 0.1
« Last Edit: January 21, 2012, 03:58:23 AM by AEO »

Offline jamespetts gb

  • Simutrans-Extended project coordinator
  • Devotee
  • *
  • Posts: 18721
  • Cake baker
    • Bridgewater-Brunel
  • Languages: EN
Re: New Simutrans-Experimental server
« Reply #94 on: January 21, 2012, 02:52:43 PM »
AEO,

thank you for your report: I have found and fixed the problem, and the fix is on Github. I hope to restart the server with the new version soon. Sorry for the trouble!

Offline Ashley

  • Coder/Patcher
  • Devotee
  • *
  • Posts: 1288
    • entropy.me.uk
Re: New Simutrans-Experimental server
« Reply #95 on: January 21, 2012, 02:53:53 PM »
Heh, definitely best for you to be doing this James, makes it easier to debug when it's your own server ;)

Offline ӔO

  • Devotees (Inactive)
  • *
  • Posts: 2345
  • Hopefully helpful
  • Languages: en, jp
Re: New Simutrans-Experimental server
« Reply #96 on: January 21, 2012, 03:00:54 PM »
@james
no problem. I rather enjoy finding the bugs :)

Offline Milko

  • Devotee
  • *
  • Posts: 829
Re: New Simutrans-Experimental server
« Reply #97 on: January 21, 2012, 03:55:00 PM »
Hello

When I place a structure or when I buy / sell a vehicle I have a problem.
 After giving the command the server executes it after several seconds, the delay between the command and its execution is all. To build complex structures, which require you to place a piece after another, the wait is a lot. This delay is correct?

Giuseppe

Offline jamespetts gb

  • Simutrans-Extended project coordinator
  • Devotee
  • *
  • Posts: 18721
  • Cake baker
    • Bridgewater-Brunel
  • Languages: EN
Re: New Simutrans-Experimental server
« Reply #98 on: January 21, 2012, 04:00:24 PM »
The delay is caused by your local game running more slowly than the server. This is not specific to Experimental; have you ever tried playing Standard over the internet?

Offline Milko

  • Devotee
  • *
  • Posts: 829
Re: New Simutrans-Experimental server
« Reply #99 on: January 21, 2012, 04:35:15 PM »
Hello

I have never used the standard version through internet, so I can not tell if the problem exists in the standard version or whether it is less marked.
 Indeed it seems that more delays are slower PCs (I have two PCs at home and I will try to investigate better) but I am surprised that even on an Intel PC T2050 1,60Ghz the problem is so thick ...
When the server returns I will try to work with my wife's PC (Intel i7).
 I will tell my wife not to work when I use the game  ;) .

Giuseppe
« Last Edit: January 21, 2012, 04:42:57 PM by Milko »

Offline jamespetts gb

  • Simutrans-Extended project coordinator
  • Devotee
  • *
  • Posts: 18721
  • Cake baker
    • Bridgewater-Brunel
  • Languages: EN
Re: New Simutrans-Experimental server
« Reply #100 on: January 21, 2012, 05:05:36 PM »
I will tell my wife not to work when I use the game  ;) .

Giuseppe

Now, here's a man with the right priorities!

Offline jamespetts gb

  • Simutrans-Extended project coordinator
  • Devotee
  • *
  • Posts: 18721
  • Cake baker
    • Bridgewater-Brunel
  • Languages: EN
Re: New Simutrans-Experimental server
« Reply #101 on: January 21, 2012, 06:06:54 PM »
The server is back up, now running 10.7 with the bug that brought it down before fixed. Happy playing!

Offline Milko

  • Devotee
  • *
  • Posts: 829
Re: New Simutrans-Experimental server
« Reply #102 on: January 21, 2012, 06:35:43 PM »
Hello

With Intel i7 I have no waiting times. :)

But I have frequent desync (when I'm setting lines and trips), unable to reproduce, I am testing...

Now it's ok.

Giuseppe
« Last Edit: January 21, 2012, 07:02:22 PM by Milko »

Offline jamespetts gb

  • Simutrans-Extended project coordinator
  • Devotee
  • *
  • Posts: 18721
  • Cake baker
    • Bridgewater-Brunel
  • Languages: EN
Re: New Simutrans-Experimental server
« Reply #103 on: January 21, 2012, 07:34:33 PM »
Thank you for the testing! Most helpful.

Offline ӔO

  • Devotees (Inactive)
  • *
  • Posts: 2345
  • Hopefully helpful
  • Languages: en, jp
Re: New Simutrans-Experimental server
« Reply #104 on: January 21, 2012, 07:51:13 PM »
ah, the new cannot delete public ways can be a bit of a problem