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Author Topic: "Update Line" button text misleading  (Read 3188 times)

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Offline Spike

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"Update Line" button text misleading
« on: January 26, 2012, 10:51:09 PM »
I think the "Update Line" button text misleading - at least I needed a while to find out how to edit a lines schedule. I'd suggest "edit schedule" or something like that because that is what the button does.

Found in Simutrans 111.1

Offline TurfIt

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Re: "Update Line" button text misleading
« Reply #1 on: January 27, 2012, 01:23:18 AM »
'edit schedule' is already present as 'Schedule' in the depot window along with 'Update line'.
'Update line' seems fine to me. Perhaps the tool tip should be extended to 'Modify the selected line schedule'?

Offline Spike

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Re: "Update Line" button text misleading
« Reply #2 on: January 27, 2012, 05:22:48 PM »
I did not talk about the depot window. I meant the line management window which just has an "update line" button and no "edit schedule" button. But the "update line" button there actually opens a new window to edit the schedule.

Tool tips are not immediately visible to the user. So the text of the buttons must tell what they do. Tool tips are mean to give further details. Make the user scan tool tips by mouse to find the right button is bad UI design.

Offline TurfIt

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Re: "Update Line" button text misleading
« Reply #3 on: January 27, 2012, 05:58:32 PM »
An 'update line' button is present in both the depot and line management windows. Has the same function in both, and hence should have the same label in both windows whether talked about or not. If changed to 'edit schedule', then the depot will have 'schedule' and 'edit schedule'. That would be utterly confusing.

Offline jamespetts

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Re: "Update Line" button text misleading
« Reply #4 on: January 27, 2012, 07:41:43 PM »
How about "edit line"?

Offline Fabio

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Re: "Update Line" button text misleading
« Reply #5 on: January 27, 2012, 10:45:36 PM »
Schedule could/should be changed to "individual schedule" or "individual route" to point out that that schedule only applies to that very vehicle, as opposed to line. Problem could be too many characters.

Edit line is fine too (better than update)

Offline Lmallet

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Re: "Update Line" button text misleading
« Reply #6 on: January 28, 2012, 01:27:21 AM »
Just a thought, is it necessary to add words like "line" or "route"?  You are in the line management window after all, so should we not just have "New", "Edit" and "Delete"?

Offline prissi

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Re: "Update Line" button text misleading
« Reply #7 on: January 28, 2012, 11:29:04 AM »
The same text is used for the depot too.

Offline jamespetts

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Re: "Update Line" button text misleading
« Reply #8 on: January 28, 2012, 12:22:01 PM »
There's no reason in principle not to start using different strings for the depot and line management windows if that would be clearer. Lmallet's suggestion is a good one, I think.

Offline prissi

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Re: "Update Line" button text misleading
« Reply #9 on: January 28, 2012, 09:46:59 PM »
A basic rule of UI design is to have the same action with the same thing. Different names for same action does not really sound like this.

Offline Lmallet

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Re: "Update Line" button text misleading
« Reply #10 on: January 29, 2012, 12:04:30 AM »
Blah, double-posted accidentally.   :o

Offline Lmallet

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Re: "Update Line" button text misleading
« Reply #11 on: January 29, 2012, 12:06:13 AM »
Prissi beat me to the reply, but yes, if two buttons do the same thing, they should have the same name.

That being said, there are currently 3 ways to create a route:
-From the line management window
-From the depot window, using the new line button.
-Using promote to line from a schedule (can also be invoked from the depot window).

While thinking about my answer, I was wondering if by having so many line management buttons within the depot window, are we not essentially removing a lot of importance from the line management window.  This can be a discussion in itself, as one has to wonder if it is better to have more buttons (as we currently have in the depot window) or more windows (only have a line management button in the depot window, and then all route creation/editing/deletion would have to be done from the line management window).  I do agree that in its current form, it is a lot quicker to create lines from the depot window than the line management window (more clicks).  Maybe this needs a rethink.

The other idea would be to group items more logically in the depot window, in such a way that everything related to line management is in the same place.  If done correctly, the "new/edit/delete" buttons would imply "new line/edit line/delete line" because of its location.

Offline Fabio

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Re: "Update Line" button text misleading
« Reply #12 on: January 29, 2012, 12:45:56 AM »
Just considering things aloud, not actually requesting any of them, pushed by Hajo's thoughts.

In depot you create a convoy. Then you can select a line from a drop down box. In the list there could:
- <Individual schedule>
- <New line>
- Line 1
- etc...
- <Reset>

If you select   <Individual schedule> the schedule dialog will appear. If the convoy has already an individual schedule or a line assigned, the new schedule will be created letting you edit the existing one.

If you select  <New line> the schedule dialog will appear again, but this time creating a new line, which will be automatically assigned when you close the dialog.

If you select a line that line will be automatically assigned.

If you select <Reset>, all line or schedule info will be forgotten.

This way buttons could be greatly simplified:
- drop down box for line and schedule management
- a small arrow near it: it will open line management window selecting the line in the box. If the convoy has an <Individual schedule> set, it will open the schedule dialog instead.
- copy convoy
- start
- start from nearest station: a new tool which will calculate which station in the schedule is shorter to reach from depot location.


Also schedule button in vehicle dialog would be redundant: enough to have the same drop down box, if you select 
<Individual schedule> the schedule dialog will appear. The same small arrow could redirect you to line management window selecting the appropriate line.

Editing or deleting a line can be done only from line management window.
A nice extension to this window would be a new button "withdraw obsolete".

Offline TurfIt

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Re: "Update Line" button text misleading
« Reply #13 on: January 29, 2012, 01:53:33 AM »
In depot you create a convoy. Then you can select a line from a drop down box. In the list there could:
Sounds like where we were headed with Show convoy capacity in depot. Still on my TODO list reworking the depot dialog. Can't believe that was August that conversation! Someday...

Offline Dwachs

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Re: "Update Line" button text misleading
« Reply #14 on: January 30, 2012, 06:22:35 AM »
Imho., the impact of the 'problem' discussed here is completely overrated. The button says: 'Update line', the tooltip of the button says: 'Modify the selected line'.

I changed the English button text to 'Edit line', as 'Update' is not the proper phrase for the purpose of the button: it does not update/refresh the line, it lets you edit/modify the line.

Btw, the raw untranslated text of this button is ---  guess what - 'Update line' --- and this string is there since the beginning of history, which is version 84.20.
« Last Edit: January 30, 2012, 06:29:35 AM by Dwachs »

Offline Spike

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Re: "Update Line" button text misleading
« Reply #15 on: January 30, 2012, 10:58:38 AM »
I'm guilty for many of such mistakes. But we can still remedy them now ;)