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Cannot remove roads owned by the public player

Started by archchancellor, January 29, 2012, 12:55:47 PM

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archchancellor

Hi,

running the latest 10.x branch, I am not be able to remove roads owned by the public player. If I try then I get an error-popup "You do not have permission to remove this".

Regards,
Mark

jamespetts

Mark,

this is intentional: it prevents players from destroying (competing) inter-city roads in multi-player games. In real life, after all, a railway company would not be able to bulldoze public roads. In a single player game, you can just switch to the public player and remove the roads yourself.
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archchancellor


wlindley

The roads between cities are owned by the Public Player; the recent change also means you cannot build a bus-stop there.  To serve an industry or a transfer station between cities, you will have to build a side road.

Roads and rivers, those "Unowned" and owned by the Public Player, are handled differently now, see this discussion.  This also changes how you can build level (grade) crossings of diagonal roads, and ship-yards and quays on rivers.  Comments there please.

jamespetts

In 10.8, players can now build stops on public roads and rivers/canals.
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wlindley


jamespetts

Glad that it works for you! (Have you tried the online server game, incidentally?)

I'm wondering whether to add a feature that allows the public player to set way tiles to be unowned, much like the existing "make public" tool (perhaps by using the make public tool on an existing public way, which would then act as a toggle).

Does anyone have any thoughts on this?
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wlindley

Online seems to work wonderfully, finally, with the server even showing in the announce list.  This week's updates resulting in 10.9 have markedly improved the game-play. Lag is still an annoyance but I am happy to report that in my few days absence, I successfully recovered my company from only 2,000  in assets back to over 50,000... time to build a bit larger now.

archchancellor

I have not tried the online environment. I only get to play simutrans very irregularly, so I'm not sure how that would work out.

Mark

Milko

Hello

It 'impossible to construct any road sign outside the cities.

Giuseppe

AP

Quote from: jamespetts on January 29, 2012, 01:18:01 PMIn real life, after all, a railway company would not be able to bulldoze public roads.

One thought just occurred to me James: the very notion of public roads. Most of what we now consider public roads, the main road network in the UK, was built as turnpikes - privately funded roads, because the roads which preceded them were so appalling (being maintained on a by-parish system). My knowledge is incomplete, but my understanding is that the public road upgrades, the motorways, occurred much later, and the turnpikes were nationalised only as/when they were bankrupted by the railways.

Therefore there might be an arguement for not having any intercity roads at the start of a game - otherwise we give an advantage to road traffic over canal and rail (ie free infrastructure).

jamespetts

Giuseppe,

there is something to be said for the notion that a private player ought not be entitled to put a sign on a public road that is intended for use by all; after all, when was the last time that a haulage company or a 'bus concern was entitled to erect road signs or install traffic lights on the public highway?

AP,

this rather depends on the era in which one starts: in the very early eras, the 18th century, one is starting with a network of the unsurfaced roads (which are the default for the time), which can take very little traffic. Macadam roads had started to become popular by the 19th century as the road network was being improved; if one starts, as we do for the server at present, in the 1820s, the default road between towns will be the macadam type. If, conversely, one starts earlier, in the 1750s or so, the default is the unsurfaced type.

We start in the 1830s at present because there is not enough detail in the canal ways/vehicles to make it worth playing hundreds of years with just canals and ships. I do plan to implement multiple types of canals, and make the default starting date 1750. I also plan to review 18th and 19th century road transport, and introduce the pack-horse and mail boy, and quite possibly prevent any wheeled vehicles from travelling on the worst type of roads (although I have yet to decide whether to have two unsurfaced road types instead of one, and what to do about cities if I do that). The early roads were often so bad as to be unusable by wheeled vehicles, making pack-horses the only means of conveyance of goods inland before the canals.

It makes more sense by far, however, to have very poor inter-city roads than to have no inter-city roads, and also makes more sense to have such poor roads if one is starting in 1750 than if one is starting in 1825.
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Milko

Hello James

Quote from: jamespetts on January 31, 2012, 11:41:14 PM
there is something to be said for the notion that a private player ought not be entitled to put a sign on a public road that is intended for use by all; after all, when was the last time that a haulage company or a 'bus concern was entitled to erect road signs or install traffic lights on the public highway?

There is a setting that allows me to place signs / traffic lights on non-urban roads owned by the public player?

I remember that there is a shortcut that allows you to view (I think a colored line) the holder of a road / rail, I can not find the references, you can remember this key combination?

Thanks
Giuseppe

jamespetts

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Milko

Sorry James

But i think it's SHFT + O (CTRL + O opens the keyboard help)  :) .

Giuseppe

isidoro

It is O (capital o) (shift+O).If that doesn't work, for an option to be available two conditions should be met:

       
  • that you have the right version of Simutrans.  If it is earlier than the version in which that feature was programmed, no way.
  • that the option is activated in your pak set (file menuconf.tab).
If not, the help menu is shown.

Ooops!  It's definitely too late...

Milko

Hello isidoro

Quote from: isidoro on February 02, 2012, 12:27:46 AM
Ooops!  It's definitely too late...

In fact you have been very useful, I could not find the "ownership"  tool in pak64exp. Thanks to what you wrote I could add to the tools already available.  :)

I add:
simple_tool[34]=,O
in the SECOND SECTION.

Thank

isidoro

Better late than never, as it is said then...  ;)