Why stuck? Newbie choose-signal problem

[Postlimit]

A very basic question this time. Why are these trains stuck, and how should the signals look if I want this to work?



The 3 arrows indicate the 3 different lines that stop at the station (ignoring all the trams on the bridge). It's the end station for 2 lines, coming from 2 different directions (yellow and orange arrows). And it's a middle-station for another (red arrow). A yellow and an orange train are stuck now.

I have used choose platform signals. I figured that using those would optimize the station. The tracks all have one-way signals further up the line (not in the picture, but indicated by the other two trains also stuck outside the station). So, trains drive on the right.

One additional comment: there was a hidden sign under a bridge when the trains came in, which initially got them stuck. But I removed it, and they still didn't move. I waited 4 months of game-time. No movement.

I've looked around, but cannot find a good tutorial for this situation... maybe because I can't search, or maybe because there isn't one yet.

Thanks in advance!

p.s. the other train in the station is also stuck, but the "stuck" sign is somehow hidden behind the station roof. Small bug, I guess. It's visible when you zoom out a lot.

[prissi]

This is not possible to avoid. Two tracks with two direction will lead to jams. Do not use choose signals, or do not connect the tracks.

[Postlimit]

Thanks for the quick lightning-fast reply.
So, that's the metaphorical fish (thanks!). Now to learn to fish: why can't the train just turn around like at an end station, and use the empty track? Both should just turn around after all. What does the game 'think' or 'see'?

[prissi]

It depends on its next destination. There may be also signals on the stations, to force trains in one direction. Or you have signals on the crossing not doing what you expect (thus is is forbidden to built them on crossings.) Hard to tell from here.

If the trains could turn, such a design might work. Such signals are not easy to see, though. Do you have a savegame.

Which version is that? There was a bug, which made trains after choosing try to go to their originals platform when saved during going there.

[Postlimit]

Version 111.0, pak 128 2.0.0 - Sorry, should have put that in the 1st post.

What you say sounds a lot like what I saw... except that now it's been going fine for a few times, with trains in a pretty similar situation entering the station together.
With some temporary bits of track, and some more signals, I got the whole thing going again (cheaper than lost revenue from sending two trains to a depot), and when I restored it to its original configuration (to study it more), it stopped happening :(

Basically, I am not 100% certain anymore that it's not just me being a newbie. Maybe I did make a mistake after all?

[prissi]

No I think this is due to the bug fixed in the meantime. This should work until saving or longer with 111.1 or the nightlies ...

[VS]

You could try adding a bypassing track on each side of station. Routing through station is penalized, so the turning trains might decide to go around. Theoretically. In a situation where they already are deadlocked (want to go through stations), you'll have to force re-routing (by opening their schedule windows and closing without changes).

[Postlimit]

In a situation where they already are deadlocked (want to go through stations), you'll have to force re-routing (by opening their schedule windows and closing without changes).

Just to make clear what you said: by opening and closing the schedule window, any vehicle will completely rethink its route? Always?
(And just to double check: It will still be heading for the next station on its schedule, and not to the starting point, which could be hundreds of tiles away?) 

Back on topic of not getting stuck: I am aware that I can avoid most problems by simply laying down more tracks, and working with way points or more signals. But while that solves problems, it goes against the goal of the game, to achieve a maximum result with minimal means. The trick obviously is not to be too minimal.

Anyway, thanks again for all the feedback. I'll be practicing and testing these kinds of stations more. Maybe I should do a couple of controlled tests to get a better feel for it!

[prissi]

Opening a schedule will force the recalculation of the route from the current position to the current destination in the schedule.

That was, what happended during loading while passing a route choose signal. After loading, both trains were routing a way to thier destination (i.e. the other platform.) Opening the schedule and setting another destination as the goto-Traget would force them to go there.

[VS]

The point was that if:
1) vehicles know a valid route but it is blocked (actually deadlocked, but they don't "know")
2) a more desirable and non-blockable route is created (which would be hopefully picked rather than the current, had it existed then)
...then:
3) route search has to be activated manually, since this isn't a "no route" situation, only "traffic jam"...

[AP]

I have, I think, found two ways of almost doing what you're trying to do. Neither are exactly what you're trying to do, but they are close, and do not involve extra track.

   
• By staggering the platforms, and ensuring that they are staggered correctly (the other way won't work) the preferred/shortest exit routes will not be blocked, so even if both platforms are occupied they will leave sequentially instead of causing a deadlock. This solution works with any pak set I believe.
• By using restrictive way types to prohibit the terminating routes from passing beyond the station. In this case, 3rd rail electrics for the orange route and overhead electrics for the yellow route, with diesel or steam for the red route. This requires a packset which has the appropriate constraints set up (such as e.g. pak-britain-ex)

pak.britain used. The little black signs are end-of-choose-signals.

With regards your original puzzle, you've got 4 crossovers when you only need two (one each end). I wonder if a correctly set waypoint 1 tile outside the station but within the choose signals, could encourage the trains to reverse?

[TurfIt]

Just to make clear what you said: by opening and closing the schedule window, any vehicle will completely rethink its route? Always?
(And just to double check: It will still be heading for the next station on its schedule, and not to the starting point, which could be hundreds of tiles away?) 

Yes. If you simply open and close the schedule, it will recalculate the route to it's current destination. However if when the schedule is open, you click on one of the entries, then that entry becomes the next destination. Useful to send a convoy back from where it came, or skip a stop when you're trying to unjam things.

Back on topic of not getting stuck: I am aware that I can avoid most problems by simply laying down more tracks, and working with way points or more signals. But while that solves problems, it goes against the goal of the game, to achieve a maximum result with minimal means. The trick obviously is not to be too minimal.

Assuming there's no mid platform signals that we can't see in the screen shot, the track layout shown in the first post should work. Not withstanding the bug prissi mentioned with choose signals and savegames that's been recently fixed.