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Offline prissi

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Japanese simutrans experimental: Simutrans VT
« on: April 12, 2012, 09:52:27 PM »
The is a japanese patch for simutrans which add extensive vehcile constraits, classes, different boarding, Xaudio2 sound support and some other stuff I could not decipher on short notice (I am quite tired right now). Comments in japanese, unfourtunately. One may call it a japanese version of experimental.
 
The sound support I will certainly look at.

 Patch http://yellow.ribbon.to/~tna/get.php?junk/simutrans_addon/Simutrans_VT_patch.zip and executable http://yellow.ribbon.to/~tna/get.php?junk/simutrans_addon/Simutrans_VT2.zip are on this page: http://yellow.ribbon.to/~tna/?url=junk/#modified_simutrans where the modified makeobj and some vehicles for a pak128.japan are found.
 
Here is the google translate of the readme.txt:
 
 
 This is a patch file (Mar 2 2012) Simutrans VT2.
Simply apply the patch can not be activated remodeling sites
Please set the MODIFIED_BY_TNA macro preprocessor, etc..


# # # # Update history
2012/03/02
****** Simutrans VT2
Recompile with 111.2.2 Nightly base.
Maximum speed when crawling on the overhead is higher than the orbit, did not modify the speed limit has been set overhead.
Fixed bug has not been initialized and is fixed_cost axle_load over Pak in the vehicle that had been dedicated to VT.
Add a Tool (102) tool to separate the building of the station.
Back, medium, and the ability to temporarily disable an image in front of the orbit can be specified.


2012/02/12
****** Simutrans VT2
Recompile with 111.2 Nightly base.
It was supposed to fix the ship is no route.
Add the configuration block to change_contents.tab.
Add a global option to change_contents.tab.
Add loding time freight [group] to [index].

****** Makeobj4vt
Recompilation based on version 53 (Nightly).
Add loading_time freight [group] to [index].


2012/01/19
****** Simutrans VT2
Fixed was no longer able to play again the train was allowed to return to the garage.


2012/01/17
****** Simutrans VT2
110.0.1 based recompile Nightly.
Fixed a bug related change_contents.tab.
Add to flag is_disabled change_contents.tab.
Fixed the ability to divert the image from the other vehicle.
Freight car with the power to change the appearance tab of the car to a train or diesel.


2011/10/28
****** Simutrans VT2
Change to make the playback of sound and effective XAudio2.
Change to be applied to separate the maximum speed of the orbit and overhead wires.
Modified to allow the train if traveling in the non-electrified line Kume and organization such as diesel-powered vehicles.
Add the settings of pantograph.
Add the maximum speed setting of the signs.
Only be turned around, add a label no function.
Add the ability to divert the image from the other vehicle.

****** Makeobj4vt
Add listcon option.
Add to image_object and has_pantograph vehicle.
Add to max_speed and Is_only_one_side roadsign.


2011/07/15
****** Simutrans VT2
Fixed at the time of the read and save files when installing the orbit, etc., that there has been a force to be terminated.
Was fixed that in spite of not in full, can not be loaded.
Fixed the sound has been disabled is set to the vehicle.
It is now possible to configure the sound other than the first car.
Change behavior when changing direction.
Add the (reset) reset button (reverse), the change of direction change of direction in the details pane of the organization.


2011/07/05
****** Simutrans VT2
Truncated version of the old save file.
Add change_contents2.tab.

The search was back to the original route.

Change the position of the button configuration of the vehicle replacement.

When you remove the home from the station, such as one of the station which are connected with each other in the tool station connection
Fix it had been disconnected.

I like to save the state of the "Show only updated" in the garage and "Display All".

Change the sound settings to ignore the "volume of the sound effects."
Volume changes in the volume control Please go of Windows.
(Has been changed here as well to manipulate volume itself Simutrans)

Change can be replaced with equivalent operations such as orbit and for the elevated ground.

Installation can be changed to specify the orientation of the home.
Possible changes to the advances of low-level station.

Configuration of the coupler.
Back, in, change the image in front of the orbit can be specified.
Change can be set more than one candidate to the sound.

****** Makeobj4vt
# Add # disabled and shift.

Add a connector to the vehicle.
extension to be able to specify the multiple candidate files sound of vehicle.

Add MultiImage, MultiImageUP, the MultiDiagonal to way.


28 April 2011
****** Simutrans VT2
Settings_vt.xml change to the name of the configuration file.
_cached_vt.xml The name change to the cache file.
or payload = 0, maximum vehicle carrying value freight
  • is set to 0

I did not modify the information is displayed cargo freight
  • and later [1] in the garage.



21 April 2011
****** Simutrans VT2
Fixed the problem that if you want to freeze or terminate when loading saved data.


20 April 2011
****** Simutrans VT2
Fixed the problem that when you create a tunnel to kill.
Fix it had become impossible to move passengers and cargo between stations connected by connection tool station.
Has been in years to save the update of the vehicle.


27 March 2011
****** Simutrans VT2
Fixed had been killed in the state you choose to update vehicle in the garage, and to start to organize it.
You select a vehicle in the state updated in the garage, if you change the length of the organization, fixed the problem that if you want to kill.
Fix it had been terminated and to specify the vehicle that is FreightImage change_contents.tab.
fixed the problem that if you want to kill and to specify the locomotive is change_contents.tab.
If the replacement to organize has been set, a zero-length side of the vehicle when the top is reversed, modified to replace the top side.
Can now be set in conjunction with an unspecified vehicle.


6 April 2011
****** Simutrans VT2
Fixed may be terminated when the object is deleted.
When removing the vehicle from the organization in the garage, fixed the problem that the settings are removed along with the consolidated vehicle of any.


5 March 2011
****** Simutrans VT2
Implement the update of the vehicle.
If the beginning of the organization was the locomotive was changed to be there by default replacement.
add a format that can be described in the change_contents.tab.

****** Makeobj4vt
additional update, of only_for_update.
Limited to eight the index of the Freight.


15 February 2011
****** Simutrans VT2
Was possible to specify the location of the vehicle replacement side top of the organization.
Was changed from the dialog to enable the "Advanced Settings" to set its own VT.
I add a setting to allow consolidation without re-Pak.


Feb 9, 2011
****** Simutrans VT2
Fixed a bug when loading a save file that contains the number of freight vehicle has been changed.


2/8/2011
****** Simutrans VT2
Loading the luggage was to enable multiple types of vehicles a.

******* Makeobj4vt
# ~, Add the statement # \.
expansion of freight.


February 2011
****** Simutrans VT2
Has been changed to 100 tool from the tool 37 a tool to connect the industries and cities.
Has been changed to 101 tool from the tool 38 a tool to connect the station and the station.

Add a prohibition sign to passing cars.

Add a label to non-priority rail.

Can now be set for each grade display type.
Now that we have also supported the revised grade, it is also possible to change the display before and after the revision.

If the schedule dialog, and you have configured only the wait time
Was to display the amount of time to wait on parts of the station name.

****** Makeobj4vt
modified to take precedence over the power to horsepower.
Add non_passing_zone signs and flags non_priority_zone flag.


22 Jan 2011
****** Simutrans VT2
Added a tool to connect the industries and cities (37 tools)
Added a tool to connect the station and the station (38 tools)
Was to choose at random from more than one type occurs when the root of how to select passengers.
Line editing window, add the average speed.

Enable_Shunting = 1 was to take effect outside the locomotive.
If you set Enable_Shunting = 1, to Enable_Reversing = 1
Orientation will now be inverted 180 degrees organized in reverse when the direction of travel as well as the original.

If you change the assignment of a shortcut to rewrite menuconf.tab
Has built-in keyboard help displayed when processing measures, because there is an error to fall.

January 2011
****** Simutrans VT2
Fixed handling of boarding to the room.
Was to allow simuconf.tab-related settings from the class room and dining car.

January 2011
Add a class room setting.
Did not modify the running costs have occurred loading 's 0.
did not modify the operation is performed as intended is reverse_offset.

December 31, 2010
Fixed a bug that can not be set in the dining car of the DMU 0 human capacity.
 

 
 

Offline kierongreen

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Re: Japanese simutrans experimental: Simutrans VT
« Reply #1 on: April 13, 2012, 07:27:59 AM »
Some code may have been taken from experimental itself (e.g. catering). Interesting to see what has been going on that we had no idea about!

Offline jamespetts

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Re: Japanese simutrans experimental: Simutrans VT
« Reply #2 on: April 14, 2012, 10:44:43 PM »
Fascinating! I wonder whether either Standard or Experimental could make use of any of this code...

Offline ӔO

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Re: Japanese simutrans experimental: Simutrans VT
« Reply #3 on: April 14, 2012, 11:27:26 PM »
The test pak is here:
http://yellow.ribbon.to/~tna/get.php?junk/simutrans_addon/tna_test_pak128jp4vt.zip

Apparently you are supposed to unpack it inside a full copy of pak128.japan.
But I think I'm doing something wrong, because it's not working.

... currently trying to get it to work.
« Last Edit: April 14, 2012, 11:33:50 PM by ӔO »

Offline yoshi

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Re: Japanese simutrans experimental: Simutrans VT
« Reply #4 on: April 15, 2012, 01:45:15 AM »
If you install the executable
http://yellow.ribbon.to/~tna/get.php?junk/simutrans_addon/Simutrans_VT2.zip
and PAK128.Japan + modified PAK
http://yellow.ribbon.to/~tna/get.php?junk/simutrans_addon/tna_test_pak128jp4vt.zip
then it should work.
The web site states that you might need to install MSVCRT.DLL.
 
 
The features (or differences from the main stream) includes;
 - if there are electric vehicles and non-electric vehicles in one convoy,
    the convoy can run on non-electric tracks only with the power of non-electric vehicles
 - max. speed road sign
 - you can load more than one type of freight for a single vehicle
 - convoys can reverse without changing the directon of the convoy
 - convoys can reverse without changing the direction of the convoy
    but with the locomotives coupled to the other end ot the convoy
 - "no overtake" road signs
 
I didn't do much experience with this,
because you need to do lots of modifications the pak files to enjoy all the functions.
But some functions are quite interesting.

Offline Isaac Eiland-Hall

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Re: Japanese simutrans experimental: Simutrans VT
« Reply #5 on: April 15, 2012, 02:38:48 AM »
I thought road signs only affected one tile, so would you have to put a max-speed sign on every tile? Same with the no-overtaking signs. Sounds interesting :)

Offline rsdworker

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Re: Japanese simutrans experimental: Simutrans VT
« Reply #6 on: April 15, 2012, 02:43:18 AM »
sounds ideal for experinental because the trains with electric units or both

Offline ӔO

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Re: Japanese simutrans experimental: Simutrans VT
« Reply #7 on: April 15, 2012, 03:12:54 AM »
ah, okay, I think I see what is going on.

It seems like the text files become corrupted upon unpacking, at least for my computer, which gives gibberish text when language is set to japanese and crashes in english. I had a look at the jp.tab and sure enough, its text was gibberish. Not sure why, but it might be the way winrar handles the zip file.

Usage:
1. Unpack VT in simutrans folder (yes, you can use VT2 inside the same folder as standard. It won't interfere and both will work as long as you don't load the other's pakset)
2. Unpack pak128.japan (rename to something else if you already have pak128.japan with addons installed) (I named it pak128.japan.VT)
3. Unpack modified pak inside pak128.japan folder
4. Move the contents inside the 'pak' folder of the modified pak to the main folder of pak128.japan

- Do not install over pak128.japan if you have addons installed, because it crashes.


---
edit

upon further checking, it seems that the original jp.tab gives out gibberish in wordpad, but it works fine in the game. I do see a slight difference in the gibberish between the two, so it might have something to do with character encoding that my computer might not have.
« Last Edit: April 15, 2012, 03:27:55 AM by ӔO »

Offline Vonjo

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Re: Japanese simutrans experimental: Simutrans VT
« Reply #8 on: April 15, 2012, 04:05:43 AM »
Japanese texts are often encoded in EUC-JP until now. Try to open it in a web browser, because it usually has encoding selection.
But, does Simutrans support encoding other than ascii and utf-8?

Offline ӔO

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Re: Japanese simutrans experimental: Simutrans VT
« Reply #9 on: April 15, 2012, 05:10:08 AM »
okay, I tried it in a browser.

It seems like simutrans is reading the VT version of jp.tab as Shift_JIS
Both original and VT are encoded in UTF-8

Offline jamespetts

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Re: Japanese simutrans experimental: Simutrans VT
« Reply #10 on: April 15, 2012, 11:04:16 AM »
Hmm, interesting. I like the feature relating to electric/non-electric vehicles, although I wonder whether the use of such a thing would be limited, as, in reality, trains would be more likely to change locomotives than run with both electric and non-electric locomotives all the way. The reversing thing looks very similar to Experimental, and might even have taken code from Experimental to achieve. Does anyone know whether the .dat file parameters for the reversing are the same as in Experimental?

Offline greenling

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Re: Japanese simutrans experimental: Simutrans VT
« Reply #11 on: April 15, 2012, 11:40:49 AM »
jamespetts
In Germany gives Railwaylines there can i view Train in there be run electric vehicles without an
electricPowerline.
I will try to soon replly a Photo.

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Re: Japanese simutrans experimental: Simutrans VT
« Reply #12 on: April 15, 2012, 11:45:28 AM »
Interesting.

Offline greenling

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Re: Japanese simutrans experimental: Simutrans VT
« Reply #13 on: November 10, 2012, 09:37:04 AM »
I Have A bad news:
I have ask after a translation in English, but the Devloper from those idea jumps from a house roof.
He have all data from those idea remove.
The Backup from those idea lay now here:
http://forum.simutrans.com/index.php?topic=10802.msg104165#msg104165
Sorry that be came so.
« Last Edit: November 10, 2012, 09:51:04 AM by greenling »

Offline prissi

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Re: Japanese simutrans experimental: Simutrans VT
« Reply #14 on: November 10, 2012, 11:42:13 AM »
Greenling if you do not speak japanese, then how comes you distribute such news?

On the website it was written (see http://yellow.ribbon.to/~tna/?url=junk/#modified_simutrans )
Quote
改造版Simutrans

VT(改造版Simutrans)にはアドオンの内容を改変する機能が付加されておりましたが、 この機能はアドオン製作者の「無断で内容を改変されたくない」という権利を侵害するものではないか? という考えに至りましたので、VTの公開を終了することにしました(特にそういった抗議があったというわけではありません)

なお、実行ファイル、またはPatchの譲渡、配布等は禁止とさせて頂きます。
which loosly translates "Because for Simutrans VT addons were modified without permission, the distribution of Simutrans VT and all patches were halted. (Not that there had been any complains.)"

But there are still the simutrans routecost variants: http://japanese.simutrans.com/index.php?cmd=read&page=%B3%AB%C8%AF%2F%C7%C9%C0%B8%C8%C7

Offline greenling

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Re: Japanese simutrans experimental: Simutrans VT
« Reply #15 on: November 10, 2012, 03:01:39 PM »
Prissi
I have the developer from those idea in my bad Japanese language ask after a Translation in English.
Then have the developer from those idea said that he not make translation in English.
And after my Question was the Data from Simutrans vt removed. ::(
Edit:I Think that the devloper get cold feets and then be remove the data from Simutrans VT.
« Last Edit: November 10, 2012, 03:09:32 PM by greenling »

Offline prissi

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Re: Japanese simutrans experimental: Simutrans VT
« Reply #16 on: November 10, 2012, 03:37:24 PM »
Well, I read your questions. Said text is why he removed it. He also did not patched up to 111.3.1 afterwards. People move on, and for whatever reason he did not want to release it any more. But there is a newer blog entry afterwards, so he is not dead, just retired from Simutrans VT2.

Offline greenling

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Re: Japanese simutrans experimental: Simutrans VT
« Reply #17 on: November 10, 2012, 03:53:31 PM »
De
Prissi ich wollte von den Erfinder dieser Idee bloss eine Übersetzung von Japanisch in Englisch haben.
Aber er hatt dann gesagt das er das nicht machen wollte.
Danach ware die Daten die mit Simutrans VT zu tun haben von der webseite entfernt worden.
En
Prissi I wanted from the inventor of this idea merely a translation of Japanese in English.
But he had then said that he does not want to make it.
Then the data would be the with Simutrans VT have to do from the web page has been removed.

Offline VS

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Re: Japanese simutrans experimental: Simutrans VT
« Reply #18 on: November 10, 2012, 04:12:33 PM »
I Have A bad news:
the Devloper from those idea jumps from a house roof.
(...)
Sorry that be came so.
This reads as "suicide". You did not want to say that. But it looked that way :( Please be careful...

Offline greenling

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Re: Japanese simutrans experimental: Simutrans VT
« Reply #19 on: November 10, 2012, 04:28:12 PM »
VS
A good developer stands to his projekts and a not so good developer let his projekt fall.

Offline Fabio

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Re: Japanese simutrans experimental: Simutrans VT
« Reply #20 on: November 10, 2012, 04:36:53 PM »
Greenling, this is plainly unfair.
In another thread we said only 5% of projects survive over time, 95% are abandoned.
This doesn't mean I wouldn't like if he shared his code so that some parts could be backported to our Simutrans(es).

Offline VS

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Re: Japanese simutrans experimental: Simutrans VT
« Reply #21 on: November 10, 2012, 04:50:28 PM »
Argh! There is a multiple side misunderstanding. Imho, the slight problem here is:

Greenling first wrote that this man commited suicide.
(Greenling hat erst geschrieben, dass dieses Mann Selbstmord gemacht hat.)

And he does not understand that (yet?).

After the exchange with Prissi, we do all understand though, that it was only some mistranslated figure of speech. Like us Czechs throwing the muskets into wheat, hm?

Offline greenling

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Re: Japanese simutrans experimental: Simutrans VT
« Reply #22 on: November 10, 2012, 05:13:51 PM »
I Give the Data from those projekt now dwachs and lets dwachs then decide whether usable it.

Offline Dwachs

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Re: Japanese simutrans experimental: Simutrans VT
« Reply #23 on: November 10, 2012, 05:45:36 PM »
 :question:

Please greenling, halt the feet still.

Offline yoshi

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Re: Japanese simutrans experimental: Simutrans VT
« Reply #24 on: November 11, 2012, 09:56:58 AM »
VT developper stopped distributing VT, as VT has function to change the parameters written in PAK files and the he started thinking that this might violate the PAK author's rights. However, he also says that he never received such complaints.
 
Anyway he explicitly says that re-distribution of VT is banned. Please don't re-distribute VT.

Offline Ters

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Re: Japanese simutrans experimental: Simutrans VT
« Reply #25 on: November 11, 2012, 10:07:29 AM »
Since VT is based on Simutrans, is it possible to impose a ban on it's continued development and distribution?

Offline greenling

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Re: Japanese simutrans experimental: Simutrans VT
« Reply #26 on: November 11, 2012, 10:59:59 AM »
Yoshi & Ters
Simutrans VT no consisting of Simutranspakfiles but it gives them Advanced tab file.
And a feature enhancement file not violated the copyright on pakfiles in my eyes.
Edit: Simutrans it open scoure there can everyone new idea s test.
« Last Edit: November 11, 2012, 12:02:40 PM by greenling »

Offline kierongreen

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Re: Japanese simutrans experimental: Simutrans VT
« Reply #27 on: November 11, 2012, 05:04:21 PM »
It depends what licence (if any) patches have been released under. While it would certainly be good for all patches to be released under the Artistic Licence I'm not sure they actually have to be.

Offline prissi

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Re: Japanese simutrans experimental: Simutrans VT
« Reply #28 on: November 11, 2012, 05:04:31 PM »
If you do not distribute something which is based on open source, you are not force to release it. Things that have been released must be released with the source. But removing either should be ok, too.

Open source is only for releasing stuff.

Offline yoshi

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Re: Japanese simutrans experimental: Simutrans VT
« Reply #29 on: November 12, 2012, 10:57:51 AM »
The developer of VT didn't explicitly state under which licence VT was released.
I just wanted to trasmit his will to those who don't understand Japanese language.

Offline Ters

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Re: Japanese simutrans experimental: Simutrans VT
« Reply #30 on: November 12, 2012, 04:31:16 PM »
If Simutrans VT is a modified version of Simutrans (like Simutrans Experimental and not a game written from scratch that "just happens" to read the same pak files), then it is under the same license as Simutrans. The same rules that allowed Simutrans VT to be based on Simutrans would allow something to be based on Simutrans VT.

Offline greenling

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Re: Japanese simutrans experimental: Simutrans VT
« Reply #31 on: November 12, 2012, 05:23:04 PM »
Ters & Yoshi
Here in those zipfile:
EDIT: Link removed
are Pakfiles from simutrans standart and simutrans Vt do not make troble to load those pakfiles.
And i think that simutrans vt falling under the open scoure form simutrans standart.
« Last Edit: November 13, 2012, 09:04:25 AM by prissi »

Offline Markohs

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Re: Japanese simutrans experimental: Simutrans VT
« Reply #32 on: November 13, 2012, 12:48:58 AM »
It's very interesting, nothing stops us to try to replicate some of that functionality, no?

Offline prissi

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Re: Japanese simutrans experimental: Simutrans VT
« Reply #33 on: November 13, 2012, 09:03:50 AM »
Greenling, please respect the wishes of the programmer that his code is only for his personal use. Open source does NOT mean you *HAVE* to release the code without program. It only means *WHEN* you release the program you must relase the source.

Offline Ters

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Re: Japanese simutrans experimental: Simutrans VT
« Reply #34 on: November 13, 2012, 06:46:32 PM »
If it's only for personal use, then why does it appear that other people have it? Is it somehow stolen? If so, then posts providing links to it should be deleted or censured.

Offline prissi

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Re: Japanese simutrans experimental: Simutrans VT
« Reply #35 on: November 13, 2012, 08:23:18 PM »
The link was the program greenling downloaded and distributed. Without consent of the author. I honor people not wanting to distribute their work without consent. It might be not 100% OpenSource, but it is 100% common sense.

I also have a copy. But then I have no intentions to distribute this.

Offline Fabio

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Re: Japanese simutrans experimental: Simutrans VT
« Reply #36 on: November 13, 2012, 08:42:38 PM »
I also have a copy. But then I have no intentions to distribute this.

What impact would this have on you (or Dwachs, or any other dev team member) starting from that discontinued project's code in order to integrate part of its behavior in standard Simutrans? 

Offline greenling

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Re: Japanese simutrans experimental: Simutrans VT
« Reply #37 on: November 13, 2012, 08:51:12 PM »
ters,fabio,prissi
That what in those movie pass want i have in Simutrans.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sJgoDfTHW9w
Please look those movie on.

Offline Ters

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Re: Japanese simutrans experimental: Simutrans VT
« Reply #38 on: November 14, 2012, 06:01:11 AM »
The link was the program greenling downloaded and distributed. Without consent of the author. I honor people not wanting to distribute their work without consent. It might be not 100% OpenSource, but it is 100% common sense.

I also have a copy. But then I have no intentions to distribute this.

Unfortunately, I can't agree without risking being accused of speaking with two tounges.

Offline kierongreen

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Re: Japanese simutrans experimental: Simutrans VT
« Reply #39 on: November 14, 2012, 08:10:32 AM »
When someone distributes a patch there are two types of code in the file, references to existing code and new lines of code. While existing code will have the same licence as the original program, new code can have whatever licence the author wishes. If this prohibits or restricts distribution of the patch file then their wishes must be respected. However distribution of any compiled executable would then be prohibited by the artistic licence as the full source code would not be available.

Offline Ters

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Re: Japanese simutrans experimental: Simutrans VT
« Reply #40 on: November 14, 2012, 04:32:06 PM »
So Simutrans VT was only ever distributed as a patch file, and never as a runable game?

That's probably something lawyers could fight a lot about. While it's not legal to distribute the modified work without complying with the license, it is legal to give instruction to each and everyone on how they can modify the work themselves. But is the patch file in itself a derivative work of the original work, or do the references to the original source fall in under fair use (which itself is a concept that might not exist everywhere)?

Offline isidoro

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Re: Japanese simutrans experimental: Simutrans VT
« Reply #41 on: November 14, 2012, 10:44:17 PM »
@kierongreen:  that does not make sense to me.  Distributing a patch should be equivalent to distributing a derived work since there is a well-known procedure to get that derived work from the patch file.

Following your argument to the extreme, if I distribute a .zip file of the modified .exe, I am literally not giving the derived work, but a bunch of random bytes, but I think no judge will believe that passing the .zip through an unzip program before using it makes any difference.

It's true that the author of a derived work has rights over his work, but may be forced by the original license to do something.  Notably, copyleft licenses like GPL, force the author of the derived work not to restrict the rights to future users, modifiers, etc. (viral behavior)...



Offline kierongreen

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Re: Japanese simutrans experimental: Simutrans VT
« Reply #42 on: November 14, 2012, 11:18:32 PM »
The Artistic Licence isn't copyleft for a start.

As Ters puts it, "it is legal to give instruction to each and everyone on how they can modify the work themselves". A patch file is just an automated way of giving instructions on how to modify the source code. That patch file may contain fragments of the simutrans source code, however these are only for locating the changes the patch will make.

Looking at the licence:
Quote
3. You may otherwise modify your copy of this Package in any way, provided
that you insert a prominent notice in each changed file stating how and
when you changed that file, and provided that you do at least ONE of the
following:
...
    b) use the modified Package only within your corporation or organization.

    c) rename any non-standard executables so the names do not conflict
    with standard executables, which must also be provided, and provide
    a separate manual page for each non-standard executable that clearly
    documents how it differs from the Standard Version.
Now, I'm not sure how Simutrans VT was distributed, however if the developer only distributed it to a select few for comments then I think 3b) may apply. 3c) can also be said to apply as the name used is Simutrans VT. Now some conditions can be said to not have been totally fulfilled:
Supplying the standard version executable. A bit pointless if you are only distributing a patch.
Correct notices at beginning of files etc. Programmers generally aren't that great at documentation so it's not really that fair to use this argument unless someone is clearly doing this for a deliberate reason.
Quote
7. C or perl subroutines supplied by you and linked into this Package
shall not be considered part of this Package.
This part is the key - new C (and hence C++) routines added, which there are many in Simutrans VT do not count as part of simutrans. Therefore the guy can use whatever licence he wishes for them. You could maybe argue that individual lines of code added would have to be released under the same licence as simutrans, however he could refuse to licence new routines, making it impossible to compile.

Offline Ters

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Re: Japanese simutrans experimental: Simutrans VT
« Reply #43 on: November 15, 2012, 05:30:08 AM »
In my understanding of the word linked, it means that the additions must be supplied after compilation, not into the source files through a patch before compilation. Point 7 seems to me to be about plugins.

Offline sdog

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Re: Japanese simutrans experimental: Simutrans VT
« Reply #44 on: November 15, 2012, 05:53:28 AM »
Beside analysing the legal options the VT dev(s) have, perhaps it's worth to look into why it is not distributed?

VT developper stopped distributing VT, as VT has function to change the parameters written in PAK files and the he started thinking that this might violate the PAK author's rights. However, he also says that he never received such complaints.
 
Anyway he explicitly says that re-distribution of VT is banned. Please don't re-distribute VT.

If i understand Yoshi correctly, and this is the only reason, he might have stoped distribution out of legal concerns. Those are perhaps a bit overcautious. Loading a pakfile and using it with parameters not defined in it's dat part, or modifying it in-game are certainly not a violation of the pak authors copyright. Especially since the (implicitly given) non-distribution license clearly allowed the use in the game simutrans, that was the whole point of it. If the way pak-file parameters are used in game must not change, no change whatsoever in simutrans would be legal with old paksets.

Perhaps it would be good to communicate with the VT author and discuss this in more detail?

If i missunderstood Yoshi, and pak-files have to be altered before using them in VT, there is also a sollution, since we have open sourced paks. (this might or might not well enough known in the Japanese simutrans community)

Offline Ters

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Re: Japanese simutrans experimental: Simutrans VT
« Reply #45 on: November 15, 2012, 06:46:30 AM »
I don't think there are any laws forbidding different interpretation of data (unless perhaps that data is some DRM stuff). Simutrans in a sense even changes the graphics when do player colors, which is probably OK since the altered graphics is not distributed.

Offline prissi

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Re: Japanese simutrans experimental: Simutrans VT
« Reply #46 on: November 15, 2012, 09:42:09 AM »
I understood the author in that way that he does not want to redistribute simutrans VT. For whatever reason, one of them may be legal concerns. Might be also another way of saying "I moved one." It actually seemed to me rather this way.
Moreover, Simutrans VT cannot interpret newer paks after the stop of development, thus it is wise to stop floating such versions around anyway.

Please go the the japanese blog, read it or leave it as the author's decision. It happens from time to time that people leave the community.

Offline Fabio

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Re: Japanese simutrans experimental: Simutrans VT
« Reply #47 on: November 15, 2012, 12:37:52 PM »
Of course people can leave the Community, it happened all the time (and from an artist point of view, Raven's retirement was one of the most painful).
Usually, though, if there was not a fight with the rest of the community, people "retiring" usually leave their products behind so that if any other in the community wants to take the legacy is entitled to do so.

Offline sdog

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Re: Japanese simutrans experimental: Simutrans VT
« Reply #48 on: November 15, 2012, 04:27:38 PM »
I understood the author in that way that he does not want to redistribute simutrans VT.
[...]
Please go the the japanese blog, read it or leave it as the author's decision. It happens from time to time that people leave the community.
You speak the language, it's better to rely on your judgement here. I mentioned only the previous post that was not consistent with this picture. Which of course might be a translation issue only.