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Author Topic: Bar non-electric trains from using electrified routes  (Read 2306 times)

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richard_n413

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Bar non-electric trains from using electrified routes
« on: October 16, 2012, 06:00:40 PM »
It is, of course, possible to stop electric trains from using non-electrified routes - being that they simply don't run without electricity. But it is currently not possible to bar non-electric trains only from using electrified routes. The reason for this is if you want to allow a non-electric train to use an electrified side-route, but prevent non-electric trains using an express route intended only for the high-speed electric vehicles.

Offline Ters

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Re: Bar non-electric trains from using electrified routes
« Reply #1 on: October 16, 2012, 06:08:21 PM »
In case you don't know, what is currently possible is making the electric route longer than the other, or giving the non-electric trains explicit orders to use the other route by placing waypoints.

("Longer" is a simplification. The point is that the non-electric route must be the most ideal, yet unusable for electric trains. Curves and climbs is also avoided when routing.)

Offline AP

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Re: Bar non-electric trains from using electrified routes
« Reply #2 on: October 16, 2012, 09:02:08 PM »
There are precedents for this; combustion engines (steam/diesel) are prohibited in some tunnels due to inadequate ventilation. Presumably a sign could be coded for this? (only electrics allowed to pass etc).

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Re: Bar non-electric trains from using electrified routes
« Reply #3 on: October 17, 2012, 04:21:51 AM »
Since the line in question for the OP is for high-speed express trains, maybe the inverse speed limit sign could be adapted from rail to road. I know of a line that is open only for passenger trains, but not (slow) freight trains (with one exception at the very end of the line), whether electrified or not.

Offline prissi

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Re: Bar non-electric trains from using electrified routes
« Reply #4 on: October 17, 2012, 01:07:57 PM »
Waypoint will be best solution, since sign are prone to be forgotten at the next juntion or may cause grief when a line is updated to electrcity again. Also freight trains are more economic on electricity. (Btw. the ICE line were mostly built for freight, which used to run there overnigth.)

But a min speed sign is easilyv added (did not such change was added some time ago?)

And in the UK half of the diesel MU run on electric lines, since the various company can use their stock more flexible this way.

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Re: Bar non-electric trains from using electrified routes
« Reply #5 on: October 17, 2012, 02:56:48 PM »
Waypoints are easier to forget than signs. (And running freight on express lines at night doesn't work in Simutrans.)

Offline ӔO

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Re: Bar non-electric trains from using electrified routes
« Reply #6 on: October 17, 2012, 03:43:49 PM »

Offline Fabio

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Re: Bar non-electric trains from using electrified routes
« Reply #7 on: October 17, 2012, 04:19:26 PM »
Editable min speed signs are an interesting idea. The main problem is: how do you EASILY tell the player to which speed is it set? Maybe they should display a label "min 60 km/h"? It could be displayed either all the time, either when mouse hovering the sign.

Offline ӔO

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Re: Bar non-electric trains from using electrified routes
« Reply #8 on: October 17, 2012, 04:34:04 PM »
Personally, I think both minimum and maximum should be displayed and it should be made to look like a marker.

examples
min: 60 - max: 145
60km/h to 145km/h


If it's possible to do two lines, then
min: 60km/h
max: 145km/h

Ideally, the game should automatically drop the minimum speed to 1km/h less than top speed of the track below it, if the user specifies a speed equal to or higher than the maximum.
« Last Edit: October 17, 2012, 04:41:34 PM by ӔO »

Offline AP

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Re: Bar non-electric trains from using electrified routes
« Reply #9 on: October 17, 2012, 07:11:11 PM »
How about a user editable speed limit sign?

http://forum.simutrans.com/index.php?topic=10656.msg102226#msg102226
Killing two birds with one stone, I like it. :-)


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Re: Bar non-electric trains from using electrified routes
« Reply #10 on: October 17, 2012, 08:16:40 PM »
What's the use case for a maximum speed limit sign? Force express trains to take the long way round even when there is a high speed tracked shortcut?

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Re: Bar non-electric trains from using electrified routes
« Reply #11 on: October 17, 2012, 08:32:25 PM »
The maximum label would just read the track's max speed IMHO ;)

Offline AP

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Re: Bar non-electric trains from using electrified routes
« Reply #12 on: October 17, 2012, 09:52:52 PM »
What's the use case for a maximum speed limit sign? Force express trains to take the long way round even when there is a high speed tracked shortcut?

More likely niche uses to do with traffic flows, e.g. ensuring platforms remain available for local services. Or ensuring high speed services avoid shorter but inappropriate routes (e.g. if you accept that high speed trains are longer than local trains, you may not want them stradelling tracks at junctions and causing gridlock - a 6 car train may fit in the signalling blocks but a 12-car train may not - so prohibiting fast trains from a given route might force them to use a longer grade-seperated route.) Or e.g. a single track line hasn't got passing loops for fast/long trains (although station waypoints would probably sort that one...)

If we're talking about an editable sign, though, it makes sense to give it all the options - a min/max toggle button, a speed number box we can type in, and maybe a "discriminate by type" button too, as discussed in the other thread (choice of pax only freight only, or default both). That way it can do many things for many people.

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Re: Bar non-electric trains from using electrified routes
« Reply #13 on: October 17, 2012, 09:55:35 PM »
yes, the maximum simply specifies the track speed the sign is on.

I figure it would be nice to see the speed limits on the fly, rather than having to use the query tool. It should be especially nice to have if you upgrade or downgrade the track at a later point.

I guess it might be preferable to have a specifiable maximum, but it would add to complexity.



I would prefer just the lower limit being specifiable, while the maximum displays the track speed.