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Offline AP

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Plateways?
« on: November 26, 2012, 08:55:13 PM »
So, what's the point of plateways then. It was mentioned that they should be used "where canals can't be built", but in game, canals can climb hills. Plateways are absurdly expensive, so I'm unclear what niche they occupy. They are just as slow as canals.  Can anyone clarify when they are good?
« Last Edit: November 26, 2012, 10:34:28 PM by AP »

Offline jamespetts gb

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Re: Plateways?
« Reply #1 on: November 26, 2012, 11:06:36 PM »
The price of plateways relative to canals might well need re-evaluating, as the pakset does need some general rebalancing in any event. Plateways ought to be cheaper than canals to build. As to the purpose of plateways, they were generally built for short hauls where canals would be impractical or uneconomic to build. We probably don't simulate these situations in Simutrans very well, so this needs consideration. Making plateways cheaper is probably sufficient to encourage them for very short haul use where a canal cannot economically be justified and where capacity is not critical.

For cases where canals were impractical to build in an engineering sense, I wonder whether some use could be made of Kieron's forthcoming landscape enhancement, and have an additional property of a way type that it cannot be built on a double height slope? If this was done, early canals could have this restriction implemented, so encouraging the use of plateways over rougher terrain as an alternative to the more costly levelling.

Offline sdog

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Re: Plateways?
« Reply #2 on: November 26, 2012, 11:38:42 PM »
You could make plateway construction much cheaper than canals but maintenance cost considerably more expensive.

Offline jamespetts gb

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Re: Plateways?
« Reply #3 on: November 26, 2012, 11:58:14 PM »
That is one idea. Perhaps it should only be slightly more expensive, since its capacity is much less overall (especially since I am planning to have signals introduced only in 1830 in the next pakset release).

Any other thoughts on this issue?

Offline sdog

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Re: Plateways?
« Reply #4 on: November 27, 2012, 01:06:00 AM »
A pitty that locks in canals aren't much more expensive and a hinderance than normal, level canal sections. Then there would be a reason for plateways as portage. (Funiculars would be even more appropriate)

Offline jamespetts gb

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Re: Plateways?
« Reply #5 on: November 27, 2012, 01:51:13 AM »
Interesting that you should mention that: doing something about locks is one of the things that I added to-day to my list of outstanding coding projects for Experimental.

Offline sdog

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Re: Plateways?
« Reply #6 on: November 27, 2012, 02:43:04 AM »
Then theres no sense in putting thought beyond a quick repair into the balancing of canals and plateways. The former will change completely in a way difficult to predict, the latter will suddenly have a reason to be.

Are you planing of adopting the half-height code that's likely going into standard? In that case it'd be better to wait for that before taking on locks. This ought to have quite some consequences for those.


this made me think of a sollution for the funikulars. I read there were funikulars in britain lifting the whole barge (very sensible). A replaced lock graphics could do the trick. The front image mus occlude the whole way, so the actual barge passing it is invisible. The two carts, one going up the other down are simulated by an animation.

In case you adopt the new terrain, a good use would be to allow locks only for 1/2 tile height steps, while a funicular can be built on full height inclines.
« Last Edit: November 27, 2012, 02:49:59 AM by sdog »

Offline jamespetts gb

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Re: Plateways?
« Reply #7 on: November 27, 2012, 07:58:36 AM »
I do hope to be able to incorporate the double/half height tiles, yes. Only on the smaller, earlier canals did they have inclined planes worked by rope to haul the boats: later canals tended to have full locks. As can be imagined, the rope can only take the weight of a small boat. I am eventually hoping to produce multiple canal types, so having an inclined plane for the height transition tiles for smaller canals is a possibility.

Offline kierongreen

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Re: Plateways?
« Reply #8 on: November 29, 2012, 12:10:37 AM »
Quote
For cases where canals were impractical to build in an engineering sense, I wonder whether some use could be made of Kieron's forthcoming landscape enhancement, and have an additional property of a way type that it cannot be built on a double height slope?
This is built into the patch. The ways I've made for pak128.Britain have both heights available so that they work with old maps but new ways with only a single height available is possible.

Offline jamespetts gb

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Re: Plateways?
« Reply #9 on: November 29, 2012, 12:56:20 AM »
This is built into the patch. The ways I've made for pak128.Britain have both heights available so that they work with old maps but new ways with only a single height available is possible.

Excellent!

Offline AP

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Re: Plateways?
« Reply #10 on: November 29, 2012, 07:47:55 AM »
When is this dual-height being generally rolled out?

Offline kierongreen

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Re: Plateways?
« Reply #11 on: November 29, 2012, 08:29:20 AM »
No idea when it will be incorporated - I just ensure it remains up to date with the latest trunk version.