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Author Topic: Smoke to be fixed somewhere in the near future  (Read 4736 times)

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Offline emaxectranspoorte

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Smoke to be fixed somewhere in the near future
« on: January 02, 2009, 10:11:48 AM »
Thanks, vilvoh. :) 8)

I saw a realism idea by Peyo, and I thought, I should make up a few, myself, as well. :) 8) So here goes: :)

I know this issue may have may been solved for transportation purposes (I don't really know for sure  :-\ :) ). Like older engines which use coal have black color smoke bubbles and so do diesel engines. Engines which use lesser polluting fuels, like for example, unleaded or kerosene in Airplanes (and also for the Cirrus Turbo Jet Engine in maglevs) use white color smoke bubbles, as we all know. But not necessarily for factories. For example, Coal Power Stations still have white smoke bubbles coming out of them,  :o :) when they're being supplied, of course. :) Shouldn't they be the color black instead? ::) For Nuclear Power Stations it should the color of the smoke bubbles should be white, as, I think, it is allready, as nuclear fusion and/or fission uses water vapor to run (from what I understand from this topic ;) :) 8) )

What I am saying is that, for realism purposes, the level of color should match (in someway) the level of pollution made. 8)

Like, for example, nuclear fusion and/or fission (either in transportation (like, for example, the Cirrus Nuclear Fusion (Fission) Engine) and/or factories) which involves nearby lakes and/or rivers (forming water vapor to cool down the core) should have white smoke bubbles coming out of its chimney.
Where there's Unleaded and/or Kerosene fuels used (either in transportation and/or factories) should have grey level (50% (transparency if possible) towards white) smoke bubbles coming out of them; while Diesel and/or Coal fuels used (either in transportation and/or factories) should be, obviously (non-transparent) black smoke bubbles. :)

The transparency bit is my idea, and doesn't, at the moment exist in Simutrans. You can have the smoke bubbles transparent (obviously for the white ones, transparent with a white edge) or non-transparent. In other words for non-transparency this is the pollution level order:

White Smoke Bubbles (for the least polluting materials (for either in transportation and/or factories)
50% Grey Level Bubbles (for the middle polluting materials (for either in transportation and/or factories)
Black Smoke Bubbles (for the most polluting materials (for either in transportation and/or factories)

For Transparency (extended realism):

White Smoke Bubbles should have a transparent bubble to show background behind it, with an outer edge (rim) of white line color
50% Grey Level Bubbles, same as white, but with a 50% more darker shade.
Black Smoke Bubbles are obviously black, and don't need any transparency. ::) 8)

Anyway... if it's worth having a look at... :-\ :-\

EDIT:

Two things I've omitted, but I just realised it now ... :  :o ::)

1. In transportation for coal and diesel the smoke is black, at first, then as a train leaves it goes whiter. Which works very well, as we all know... :) 8) This should also should happen for the grey and white smokes I said before. :) Should this behaviour relate to factories, as well? :-\

2. I've seen somewhere an example on how to do black transparencies, but since that's a bit harder to do I'll leave it at black (black transparencies do exist, but they're just harder to do, for me anyway...  ;) ;D:)
« Last Edit: January 03, 2009, 03:52:36 PM by emaxectranspoorte »

Offline vilvoh

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Re: Smoke to be fixed somewhere in the near future
« Reply #1 on: January 02, 2009, 10:28:10 AM »
This is already possible as the smoke is an object like any other. I mean, the reason why there's no more different types of smoke is because nobody has painted them. If I remember correctly Raven did a set of old japanese trains which includes a black dark smoke, so as I've said it's possible.

As far as I know, each smoke object consist of a set of frames which act as an animation. This is the actual set of smoke types available in pak64 (available at the SVN)

Therefore, the solution is easy, paint new smoke types..  :)

Btw, transparency would be a problem due to the special way Simutrans handles it, but I think it's not necessary as you can paint more frames in the smoke animation to simulate that transparency, that actually means there're less smoke particles.

Offline emaxectranspoorte

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Re: Smoke to be fixed somewhere in the near future
« Reply #2 on: January 02, 2009, 10:45:36 AM »
As far as I know, each smoke object consist of a set of frames which act as an animation. This is the actual set of smoke types available in pak64

What about for pak128? :-\

Offline vilvoh

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Re: Smoke to be fixed somewhere in the near future
« Reply #3 on: January 02, 2009, 11:01:34 AM »
Well, I don't have access to the pak128 sources but the object creation process is the same for all paks. You only need a png file with the frames of the smoke animation and a dat file that is valid for any pak.
Code: [Select]
Obj=smoke
 Name=Steam
 Image[0]=ls-smoke.1.0
 Image[1]=ls-smoke.1.1
 Image[2]=ls-smoke.1.2
 Image[3]=ls-smoke.1.3
 Image[4]=ls-smoke.1.4
 -----------------------
After that, you have to create or recompile the object so that it uses that new smoke type. That's the hardest part because many times you don't have access to the object sources so you can't recompile it. Anyway, let's wait for some pak mantainers opinion about this.

Offline Ashley

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Re: Smoke to be fixed somewhere in the near future
« Reply #4 on: January 02, 2009, 11:26:26 AM »
Creation of smoke objects is relatively easy, as vilvoh says (for the nuclear fission chain I made a smoke image specially), I am sure if you created some new smoke images for the industries in pak128 they would be included in the official pak files. I suggest posting on the pak128 boards to request the source images for the industries you wish to make smoke images for.

Offline emaxectranspoorte

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Re: Smoke to be fixed somewhere in the near future
« Reply #5 on: January 02, 2009, 11:29:20 AM »
Creation of smoke objects is relatively easy, as vilvoh says (for the nuclear fission chain I made a smoke image specially), I am sure if you created some new smoke images for the industries in pak128 they would be included in the official pak files. I suggest posting on the pak128 boards to request the source images for the industries you wish to make smoke images for.

:o

Do I need to make smoke images for all industries, now?  :-\

EDIT: There's no solution to have a one for all  :o (and all for one  ;) :D8)



Creation of smoke objects is relatively easy, as vilvoh says (for the nuclear fission chain I made a smoke image specially), I am sure if you created some new smoke images for the industries in pak128 they would be included in the official pak files. I suggest posting on the pak128 boards to request the source images for the industries you wish to make smoke images for.

Will, do. Thanks for your help, Timothy. ;) :)

Note by admin: please, do not double-post so much. Preferentially, use "Modify" tool, and everyone will see a "New" tag in topic index of this board. Also, I think your posts are too much populated with smileys ;-) .
- IgorTekton
« Last Edit: January 02, 2009, 09:01:03 PM by IgorTekton »

Offline Frank

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Re: Smoke to be fixed somewhere in the near future
« Reply #6 on: January 02, 2009, 11:34:46 AM »
smoke object in german wiki

Offline emaxectranspoorte

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Re: Smoke to be fixed somewhere in the near future
« Reply #7 on: January 02, 2009, 11:42:43 AM »

Offline vilvoh

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Re: Smoke to be fixed somewhere in the near future
« Reply #8 on: January 02, 2009, 11:49:54 AM »
I think there's a misunderstood. You don't have to create a smoke for each industry or object which produces smoke. It's common to all objects that use it. You have to create some types of smoke (following your original idea they would be white, grey and black) and then they can be recicled from an object to another. In fact it's just a matter of changing a single line in the dat file of each object.

Offline VS

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Re: Smoke to be fixed somewhere in the near future
« Reply #9 on: January 02, 2009, 02:24:15 PM »
Smoke is an object, like car or tree - you can have many different smokes. Factory then uses one of them. Smokes are easy to code. And pain to align so that they look nice, I guess...

The problem I see is inability to control smoke in any way. You get five or two images and that's it? Control over animation speed and variable length would be good.

I should probably confess, I do not see smokes as worth much attention since you can't do much and they are already present...

Offline vilvoh

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Re: Smoke to be fixed somewhere in the near future
« Reply #10 on: January 02, 2009, 05:35:39 PM »
[..] Control over animation speed and variable length would be good. [..]

If I remember correctly, you can control the animation speed giving a value in miliseconds to animation_time attribute in the dat file. I guess it works with almost all objects with animations. In addition I think the variable lenght may be controllable with the offset.

Offline emaxectranspoorte

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Re: Smoke to be fixed somewhere in the near future
« Reply #11 on: January 03, 2009, 10:52:57 AM »
I should probably confess, I do not see smokes as worth much attention since you can't do much and they are already present...

Anyway... this one was to make things seem and/or not seem a little bit more realistic in simutrans...

Note to admin: MHA for double-posting, again. :) 8)
MHA for using so many smileys, to both Igor and Dirk. :)
« Last Edit: January 05, 2009, 05:54:35 AM by emaxectranspoorte »

Offline DirrrtyDirk

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Re: Smoke to be fixed somewhere in the near future
« Reply #12 on: January 03, 2009, 04:52:22 PM »
And how I am supposed to tell my emotions, if I don't use smileys, Igor?

It's about using not as many smileys - nobody said you can't use them at all. You don't really have to show your emotions about every three lines by up to 3 different smileys, do you?

Offline emaxectranspoorte

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Re: Smoke to be fixed somewhere in the near future
« Reply #13 on: January 03, 2009, 04:58:41 PM »
It's about using not as many smileys - nobody said you can't use them at all. You don't really have to show your emotions about every three lines by up to 3 different smileys, do you?

MHA, Dirk. I'll try to correct this problem. IHA If I Offended Anyone and/or For Any Inconvenience Caused. :) 8)

EDIT: THOUGH, I NEVER MEANT TO OFFEND AND/OR INCONVENIENCE, ANYONE ...  :o :-\ :( BUT MMHA ... :) 8)
« Last Edit: January 04, 2009, 04:54:54 AM by emaxectranspoorte »