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Author Topic: Modifing or adding certain indusries to realistic standards (industry = era)  (Read 4246 times)

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Offline Peyo

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All this is related to pak128 BTW...

The Electronics Factory, for example, has the glass industry providing it. That was until the 2000 era.
Know with plasma TV's and laptops more in use, glass production should be reduced and plastic production should increase. Also in addition an incentive may be required to reward players if glass production decreases, for example, IMHO, I don't know, maybe for reducing usage of our resources (glass comes from sand).

The Food Factory is missing the Milk Transportation Component. Doing cakes requires milk. I cannot think of any cakes that don't require milk at the moment.

New Industries should be added to the following Industry Chains, all of which I made up and are not currently in the game :

A properly assesed Packaging Industry Chain: All industries are missing some packaging chains. From a realistic view, a packaging scheme should relate to the era in which production and consumption is made. Examples are: 1. The Car Industry is missing the glass industry component. Cars, in the older era were made mostly of metal, glass and some plastic. Nowadays it's more plastic, as per the game, but glass is still in use. 2. Most other industries are missing other packaging schemes: The Food Factory is missing plastic, glass and steel packaging consumption, of which in later decades is in use. In the Supermarket Industry chain and other consumer based markets there is no mention of any packaging systems being delivered or in use in later years.

A properly assesed Bottling Industry Chain: Most industries are missing a certain providing industry, while others have them. Like the Beer Bottling industry chain system is missing the plastic chain component. In addition more bottling based indusrty chains should be added complete with all realistic packaging consumers: steel, plastic, glass etc...
Examples, from what I've thought of (based on reality & the list is actually too long to put up in here), from a dot point view:

. Ok, first of all I wanted to add a new totally cool thing, that I just realised of implementing, I know you know of it...

Each train/tram/maglevs/planes/bus and so on comes out of a depot. Before getting to the depot, as per game, they come from the air.  (manufacturing, assembly, and so on). Why not make a industry chain for each transport type. :) Complete with producer, supplier, so on, and that particular depot that is been built by a player(train/tram/maglevs/planes/bus) as the consumer. I know that as the game starts, this might be a bit hard for the player, as not making any profit/money. Maybe this should be implemented, IMHO, as soon as that particular player has enough money, and/or if for newer eras (modern eras, futuristic eras and so on). Examples: a factory produces steel, plastic, and glass (Am I missing something... ??? ) and then takes it to the train/tram/maglevs/planes/bus manufacturing and/or assembly facility and then the consumer is that particular depot player has built somewhere on the map (I know, I've been thinking about this one quite a lot: probably the path between the manufacturing and/or assembly plant of that particular vehicle (train/tram/maglevs/planes/bus) and that particular depot, could be air, as per the game ;) ;D , as it would make the game completely difficult, to transport each vehicle type (examples a 12 car train) to the depot, so that particular player, can use it.) :o . Still it makes a bit more realistic, but quite very complex, IMHO.

. Make available the Chemical Plant and Chemist to all players for all paks, as it is in pak64. :)

. A Juice/Vegetable Bottling and Packaging Industry Chain: for packaging juice products (based on fruits and vegetables cultivation: I think we can also use the Grain Farm for this, if it could be usefull... ;)

. Nice of you to mention eggs JamesSpetts, below, we could use the chicken farm for The Food Factory.

.





 






« Last Edit: January 13, 2009, 09:30:17 PM by Peyo »

Offline Combuijs

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Feel free to experiment with factory chains, but from a playable game point of view be aware that industries should not be too heavily interconnected. A factory that consumes 4 or 5 products in order to produce something leads to a lot of factories when the end-consumer is generated in the game.

Offline The Hood

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I'd tend to agree with Combuijs - massively complex industry chains create major industrial blight on the whole landscape and are pretty complex to play. 

One thing I'd like to see which I think would help reflect changing industries over time is that old chains are removed or replaced after a "retire date".  This could be done by having a random chance that a certain industry is removed each month after the retire date.  For neatness this process should probably also close any factories which have a particular good supplied only by that factory or supply only that factory.  To keep the overall industry levels up any industry which closes should result in the generation of a new industry chain elsewhere on the map.

This would have two gameplay advantages:
1) No 1800s industry chains in 2000s
2) Increased challenge in longer games as the player would need to adapt networks to close old industrial lines and develop new ones over time.

Offline VS

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You are absolutely right that industries are simplified. BUT. Currently there is no way of telling Simutrans many things:

You must supply everything for production to start.
All output goods are produced, even if there is no contract.
Once built, industries just stay there.

With this set of constraints, it is impossible to do better.

Offline jamespetts gb

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The Hood has an excellent idea, and this should not be too hard to implement in the form that he suggests. It would also be a very useful way of changing the industrial fortunes of one's Simunation over time (as determined by the pakset author), by retiring a great many industries in one era and replacing them with a fewer number of new ones.

Incidentally, as an amateur cake baker, I can confidently state that very few cake recipes contain milk. Most cakes are made with sugar, butter, flour and eggs as their base: fruit and other things are added as flavouring. Milk is occasionally used to make a mixture more moist if it has been made too dry in error.

Offline Peyo

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The Hood has an excellent idea, and this should not be too hard to implement in the form that he suggests. It would also be a very useful way of changing the industrial fortunes of one's Simunation over time (as determined by the pakset author), by retiring a great many industries in one era and replacing them with a fewer number of new ones.

Incidentally, as an amateur cake baker, I can confidently state that very few cake recipes contain milk. Most cakes are made with sugar, butter, flour and eggs as their base: fruit and other things are added as flavouring. Milk is occasionally used to make a mixture more moist if it has been made too dry in error.

Yes he does, 8) but I'm still under construction with this particular request ... I sincerely apologize (to all, especially the admins :( ) if it's gonna take the whole width of the forum screen, when I'm done with it. :o ::)

And Jamesspetts (hope I spelled your name correctly) where I worked once I've seen bakers adding milk to, maybe say 80%, of cakes that were baked. :o Phew, that must have been a lot of work... ;D :-\

So, still continue to be looking up at the request for more changes... ;) :o

« Last Edit: January 07, 2009, 05:46:36 AM by Peyo »

Offline emaxectranspoorte

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Each train/tram/maglevs/planes/bus and so on comes out of a depot. Before getting to the depot, as per game, they come from the air.  (manufacturing, assembly, and so on). Why not make a industry chain for each transport type. :) Complete with producer, supplier, so on, and that particular depot that is been built by a player(train/tram/maglevs/planes/bus/truck (in other words vehicle)) as the consumer. I know that as the game starts, this might be a bit hard for the player, as not making any profit/money. Maybe this should be implemented, IMHO, as soon as that particular player has enough money, and/or if for newer eras (modern eras, futuristic eras and so on). Examples: a factory produces steel, plastic, and glass (Am I missing something... ??? ) and then takes it to the train/tram/maglevs/planes/bus manufacturing and/or assembly facility and then the consumer is that particular depot player has built somewhere on the map (I know, I've been thinking about this one quite a lot: probably the path between the manufacturing and/or assembly plant of that particular vehicle (train/tram/maglevs/planes/bus) and that particular depot, could be air, as per the game ;) ;D , as it would make the game completely difficult, to transport each vehicle type (examples a 12 car train) to the depot, so that particular player, can use it.) :o . Still it makes a bit more realistic, but quite very complex, IMHO.

I've got a simple solution, for your first dot point, IMHO :) :

When a game starts and a player doesn't have any profit, then everything works (buying vehicles from depot after they are manufactured, assembled from the air and/or vacuum) like it is, normaly in Simutrans. After a player makes some profit and/or money just to make it more realistic and also to reduce complexity issues that might arise, we can just have a "in stock" greyed out menu item somewhere in the depot menu (for each train/tram/maglevs/planes/bus and so on), before having any manufacturing facilities around (and also when a player don't make enough money and/or profit). Then as soon as the player thinks that makes enough profit, can connect a vehicle manufacturing production and assembling facility to their depots. Then the "in stock" menu item is no longer greyed out. To make things more simpler for the bus and/or trucks manufacturing and assembly, can be done at a producing, fully supplied car factory and/or supplied car dealer, and not necessarily have to have its own factory to produce them (after you connect that particular depot to that particular factory and/or that particular dealer).

Otherwise, as The Hood said earlier... :)
« Last Edit: January 09, 2009, 06:53:11 AM by emaxectranspoorte »

Offline whoami

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All output goods are produced, even if there is no contract.
Idea for this: prefer to make the product which takes the lowest percentage of its dedicated storage. Thereby, goods which are actually released (to an attached stop) will be produced until the stop or the comsumer overflows, and only then the goods without demand will be considered.

Offline VS

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I would rather see something like "threaded industries" - imagine that as having different production lines inside, if you wish; essentially it means that a cannery can do either fish+steel or meat+steel, and only the part that can work produces. Of course that presents far more possibilities than this :)

Offline emaxectranspoorte

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I would rather see something like "threaded industries" ...

Good point, VS ... now let's just wait and see what he's thoughts are on this... :) IMHO ... anyway... :-\
« Last Edit: January 09, 2009, 09:42:26 AM by emaxectranspoorte »

Offline Peyo

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Of course that presents far more possibilities than this :)

Good suggestion, VS. Yes, as you said, there could be endless possibilities. :)


Offline jamespetts gb

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One possible complication in respect of The Hood's idea is what to do with other industries in the chain: should they be reassigned to another industry, or closed? What if one ends up with reassignments such that five or six industries at one point in a chain connect to just one at another point? If we start enforcing maximum connexion limits, what decides which industries are closed down...? All the data would have to be tracked.

Offline Peyo

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You are quite right james. :)

Also, me thinks everyone who improves the game should make those decisions.