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Author Topic: [0.9.0] 80km/h concrete road retire date  (Read 4115 times)

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Offline ӔO

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[0.9.0] 80km/h concrete road retire date
« on: August 09, 2013, 03:51:24 AM »
I think it's good to have this road available to build forever as private lorry roads, so could the retire date be removed?

Offline greenling

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Re: [0.9.0] 80km/h concrete road retire date
« Reply #1 on: August 09, 2013, 02:04:38 PM »
Hello Aeo
The Removing of the retire date for the 80km/h concrete road it's a very good idea.

Offline jamespetts gb

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Re: [0.9.0] 80km/h concrete road retire date
« Reply #2 on: August 09, 2013, 06:38:03 PM »
The reason that I set a retirement date is that this road was not in fact built since about that time because it was found to cause excessive noise and tyre ware. Do you have any historical precedents for any long distance road (as opposed to a yard or a road within a site) being built from concrete in the 1990s or later in the UK?

Offline kierongreen

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Re: [0.9.0] 80km/h concrete road retire date
« Reply #3 on: August 09, 2013, 07:38:34 PM »
Where industries require long private roads they are often maccadam or similar rather than fully paved in concrete or asphalt. After all they're generally used by fairly tough vehicles, speed isn't of the essence so why go to the expense of paving?

Offline jamespetts gb

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Re: [0.9.0] 80km/h concrete road retire date
« Reply #4 on: August 09, 2013, 08:06:26 PM »
Interesting. Do you have any examples of modern MacAdam roads being built in the UK other than internally to a site?

Offline kierongreen

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Re: [0.9.0] 80km/h concrete road retire date
« Reply #5 on: August 09, 2013, 10:38:45 PM »
Ah - but in rural areas internally to a site can be quite a distance. For example https://maps.google.co.uk/?ll=56.57731,-5.557365&spn=0.038294,0.077162&t=k&z=14.

Offline jamespetts gb

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Re: [0.9.0] 80km/h concrete road retire date
« Reply #6 on: August 09, 2013, 10:50:34 PM »
Interesting. Do you think that we should abolish the retirement date of the MacAdam road...?

Offline kierongreen

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Re: [0.9.0] 80km/h concrete road retire date
« Reply #7 on: August 09, 2013, 11:10:06 PM »
In Standard at least there isn't one. Concrete is the only road with a retire date.

Personally I'd say that dirt should have a retire date of around 1900 at least. After that unpaved roads were MacAdam to cope with vehicular traffic. Is there a reason that 1989 was chosen as concrete retire date? I agree the noise on concrete roads is a problem - but on the other hand bus ways built fairly recently have often been of concrete construction (although these should probably use a different image).

Offline jamespetts gb

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Re: [0.9.0] 80km/h concrete road retire date
« Reply #8 on: August 09, 2013, 11:14:06 PM »
'Bus ways are rather in a category of their own, I think, if you mean guided 'bus ways. This would need a way constraint in Experimental.

1989 was chosen as the approximate date on which concrete roads were no longer built for general use. I do not have any exact information (and would change the date if I had), but I recall the M40 being of concrete construction and parts of it being built around that date (possibly) and do not recall any concrete being used thereafter. I might be wrong, however - if anyone has any better information, please let me know.

Offline sdog

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Re: [0.9.0] 80km/h concrete road retire date
« Reply #9 on: August 10, 2013, 01:46:31 AM »
I haven't played past 1970 in quite a while and can't check right now:

It'd be good if there was at least one road without any markings for the entrances to freight yards, bus stations and loading bays. With many crossings there, markings often look very awkward and are out of place in such internal areas.

Preferably are light colours to simulate concrete sett (those interlocking concrete bricks) or concrete slabs often used for heavy duty freight yards.

Offline ӔO

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Re: [0.9.0] 80km/h concrete road retire date
« Reply #10 on: August 10, 2013, 01:58:19 AM »
maybe a modern macadam road then?

I don't know about the UK, but over here, farm roads and industrial roads (outside of urban areas) are typically 60km/h to 80km/h

Offline kierongreen

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Re: [0.9.0] 80km/h concrete road retire date
« Reply #11 on: August 10, 2013, 02:33:15 AM »
Modern MacAdam doesn't really differ that much from historical - well, maybe more efficient construction but end result is similar. Only roads really not used now are dirt and cobblestones (aside from pedestrianisation of town centres but that doesn't really come into simutrans...). No, I think the uses sdog is referring to might as well keep concrete.

Offline sdog

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Re: [0.9.0] 80km/h concrete road retire date
« Reply #12 on: August 10, 2013, 03:20:56 AM »
everywhere you have heavy road vehicles accelerating or breaking asphalt surfaces are not fit, as they tend to flow away. For a bus terminal or truck loading bay hard surface materials are typically used. Sett is a bit more expensive but lasts considerably longer (concrete slabs tend to tilt about their center, which cracks them eventually).

From a distance they don't look any different. Perhaps you could introduce it as high cost, low speed, highest axle weight, very low maintenance waytype, after perhaps 1970 or so.

example from the uk: http://ws-solutions.co.uk/img/loadingbay/loading%20bay.jpg

Offline kierongreen

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Re: [0.9.0] 80km/h concrete road retire date
« Reply #13 on: August 10, 2013, 11:25:45 AM »
Or have them as a modern version of cobblestone with different graphics (which I think was mentioned before a year or two ago).

Offline jamespetts gb

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Re: [0.9.0] 80km/h concrete road retire date
« Reply #14 on: August 10, 2013, 11:29:10 AM »
Are these modern setts used in anything other than loading bays themselves? It seems quite a lot to put a new sort of way graphic in just for loading bays.