I can't build any tunnel (road or railway)

[PatrickB]

Hi,

Simutrans 112.4 Nightly 7029, pak 128 r1373.

I don't seem to be able to build tunnels, I always got the message that a tunnel must start on a right slope (or something simular). CTRL-click won't create a entrance neither.
In sliced view when I try to lay a track I get the message unsuitable terrain.

Is there a configuration setting prohibiting tunnels?

I can't find anything on google.

thanks
Patrick

[Ters]

I know little about pak128. Has it enabled the new double-height functionality? If so, only slopes of a certain steepness can be built on by various things.

[PatrickB]

It is indeed a problem with pak128.open.r1373

I can build tunnels with pak64 and pak128 v2.3.0

Thanks for the pointer.
Patrick

[isidoro]

I don't think it is a problem of the pak itself.  With the new version of paksets (double-heights), you need a difference of two in height in the tunnel mouth to be able to build it.  That was not the case with previous versions like the ones you point out.

How to proceed: once you have chosen the tile in which the tunnel mouth will be, write down the heights of its four corners (you can see that by placing the lower land arrow tool on the four corners and note down the third coordinate that appears in the lower right corner of the screen).  Imagine you wrote: 3 3 1 2.  In that case, you must lower the last corner by one unit so that you have 3 3 1 1.  Now you can use the normal tunnel tool (with CTRL) to open the tunnel mouth there.

Hope it helps.

[Fabio]

I think tunnel builder should try to raise the slope and near -say- 2-3 tiles in case of soft slope in order to facilitate the user experience.


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[Ters]

That only makes sense for half-height pak sets, not double-height pak sets.

[whoami]

I think tunnel builder should try to raise the slope

According to my experience with Pak128.Britain (using nightlies): This does not help, because the usual height difference is a half. To build a tunnel, you often need to lower two tiles for each portal (half-slope downwards for the way, then full slope upwards for the portal itself). Hence my suggestion in http://forum.simutrans.com/index.php?topic=13076.0

[Fabio]

That only makes sense for half-height pak sets, not double-height pak sets.

But double height requires normal slope for portals?
I think that anyway some auto terraforming would be useful in both cases (but with different actions required).
Which is the better terraforming in either case is however debatable to find the best solution.


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[kierongreen]

Indeed double-height paks will not build tunnel entrances on steep slopes, half height paks won't build them on shallow slopes. Autoterraforming for both would be handy.

[prissi]

Although I am not sure how to autoterraform for a double height tile. If this is to be ment to start a tunnel, den all the next tiles need double height too. Also tunnel would need two height clearance or it is very confusing.

Honestly, I think tunnel should be single height, no matter what slopes selected. TTD also manages a tunnel on half height slopes.

[kierongreen]

Autoterraforming should create an appropriate slope where the surrounding landscape permits it. This is useful for both tunnels and bridges - in both cases the start requires a straight slope. This should be possible to create in many cases by altering heights of adjacent tiles.

Single height slopes don't give enough visual clearance for tunnels or bridges in half height paks.

[prissi]

That depends strongly on the pak. I think pak128.britain would allow for enough clearance. (And pak.TTD would only have single height tunnels, as they are used with TTD). So maybe this is rather something for the pak set to allow or disallow. It make also no sense to force double height tunnel entry but then only one height (as of now) in mid tunnel clearance. In that case you would need to build a hump on the entrty and exit.

[kierongreen]

Mid tunnel should require double height clearance at the moment for pak128.Britain and pak128 (height 8, conversion factor 2). pak64 would not need double height clearance (height 16, conversion factor 1). pak.TTD would be more like pak64 as it would be conversion factor 1 and tile height 8.

[prissi]

But then tunnels (and bridges) sould only need clearance 1 in pakTTD.

[kierongreen]

Indeed - with conversion factor 1 you only need 1 clearance, conversion factor 2 you need 2 height clearance. pak.TTD while having the same tile height as pak128 and pak128.Britain has a different graphical style which allows only 1 height clearance. With pak128 and pak128.Britain this wouldn't work.