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Author Topic: bridgewater-brunel.me.uk - Simutrans-Experimental - Pak128.Britain-Ex 0.9.1  (Read 185293 times)

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Offline prissi

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Loading a game at log level 3 easily produces several MBs of logging information. The highest possible level for servers (at least not ultra high speed ones) was 2. Maybe James can tune this a little.

Offline jamespetts gb

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Once the desyncs problem is solved, I plan to turn down the logging again. Apologies everyone for the slowness.

Offline Sarlock

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The speed is tolerable... all in the name of bug squashing!  :)

Offline TurfIt

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The loading speed of the server appears unchanged. Many of the excessive level 3 messages that show during loading were removed.
Now the file transfer speed, that's dropped. I'm seeing a very erratic transfer with speeds frequently dropping below 2Mbps. The changes to the logging have nothing to due with this.

Offline ӔO

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There is a train attempting to go the wrong way at Burnwell and it's caused a major traffic jam and pax pileup.

Offline jamespetts gb

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The loading speed of the server appears unchanged. Many of the excessive level 3 messages that show during loading were removed.
Now the file transfer speed, that's dropped. I'm seeing a very erratic transfer with speeds frequently dropping below 2Mbps. The changes to the logging have nothing to due with this.

That is extremely odd. I have no idea what might cause this. My provider has unlimited bandwidth, and I do not think that anything in the network code has changed that might impact on the transfer speed itself. Can anyone who knows more about the intricacies of networking than I suggest what might be happening here and how to look into dealing with it? I am rather at a loss.

Offline Sarlock

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Seems okay to me right now... getting about 1.5-2.0 MB/s which is about normal for me.

Offline VOLVO

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There is a train attempting to go the wrong way at Burnwell and it's caused a major traffic jam and pax pileup.
A very funny prank from the train driver there.
I didn't even have replacing vehicle schedule on the line..
No reason for it to go backwards.

edit : Put it on the next stop, still wants to go backwards, you are fired!
« Last Edit: May 14, 2014, 08:01:23 AM by VOLVO »

Offline jamespetts gb

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I have just restarted the server with TurfIt's build of 11.31 to see whether this makes any difference to the desyncs - please report any difference in the frequency of desyncs from before the restart and any desync logs that you are able to muster.

Offline VOLVO

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Re: How to get Simutrans-Experimental
« Reply #674 on: May 19, 2014, 10:51:00 AM »
I'm now in Hong Kong.

Very long loading time plus instant dissynchronise..

I have a 400MB Broadband here by the way.

Offline Sarlock

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Re: Re: How to get Simutrans-Experimental
« Reply #675 on: May 19, 2014, 06:29:02 PM »
It may not be you... I just had the same experience with several checklist mismatch desynchs instantly occurring right after connection.  Check your logs to see if you are getting checklist desynchs or something else.

Offline jamespetts gb

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I have split the last two posts from the "How to get Simutrans-Experimental" thread and added them here since they appeared to be about this server rather than about how to download and install Simutrans-Experimental.

My apologies that you are having difficulties: I do not have time to look into it to-night, but please keep me updated with how things are going. TurfIt is in the process of writing an improved system for logging that should enable us to track down the issues rather better than is possible at present. An issue has already been traced to something relating to cities (we cannot be more specific yet), and Kevin/A-Train has identified a further possible issue relating to using the forest tool, although this is probably not the main cause of the problems.

Offline Sarlock

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I am hopeful that with the latest issue, you'll both be able to hone down on the core problems and address them-it seems much easier to recreate than previous intermittent issues, and hopefully a lot easier to zero in on the issue.  The desynchs were nearly instantaneous.

Thanks for moving the thread.

Offline jamespetts gb

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What is interesting is that, having downloaded the server game locally, I cannot reproduce this with a server and client on my local system.

Offline Sarlock

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It really does point towards how different systems perform the math... could this be in the rand function itself?  I don't know enough to be able to add much to the discussion and I'm sure you've both looked in many different places, but perhaps there is something in the rand function that causes the rare differential to occur and the sheer size of our map makes it statistically more likely to happen?  When running a client/server on the same machine, you're getting the same method of computation occurring which makes the mismatch not happen.

When the checklist is made and compares rand, how does it account for temporary timing differences between server and client?  ie: If the client is 1 second behind the server and perhaps a rand call that the server made 1 second ahead and has already made multiple calls later, how does the checklist reconcile this time differential?  And how frequently is the rand function being called?

I wonder if a worthwhile test would be to just run the rand function a bunch of times on different machines known to cause mismatch and see if there are any variances.

I should get myself back in to coding, I haven't really done any for close to 20 years but I'm sure I could pick up C++ fairly quickly.  (I used to do Pascal, some Perl (which has similarities to C) and some assembly).  As always, it just comes down to finding the time in a busy life to devote to it :)

Offline ӔO

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The only thing I can think of is the server hardware is unstable and not calculating correctly, or the linux and windows builds calculates things differently.


---
to add, the server is currently extremely slow to send the save game over to me.
I think it is only doing about 500kb/s, which causes the transfer to take 4 minutes to complete.
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Deep sea can still be edited in some directions, if the increase terrain height tool is used a certain level above sea level.
I think it was 3 high, then just drag left to right to increase water height.

« Last Edit: May 21, 2014, 04:44:02 AM by ӔO »

Offline AP

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Deep sea can still be edited in some directions, if the increase terrain height tool is used a certain level above sea level.I think it was 3 high, then just drag left to right to increase water height.

This workaround has been around for a while. Expensive though :D

Offline jamespetts gb

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Thank you for that report - I will have to fix that before the next release.

Offline Sarlock

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Thank you.  For the record, if you find a bug or exploit like this, please report it on the forums to James... don't use it in the game and leave it for someone else to discover that you've used it and how it's done.  The whole purpose of this server is to identify such things.

Offline jamespetts gb

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I am in the process of fixing this now.

Offline jamespetts gb

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I have now restarted the server with the latest version, 11.32. I should be grateful for any feedback on how this works and the stability and prevalence or otherwise of desyncs, as well as any reports on whether the earlier reported instability of the passenger network has improved.

Offline Sarlock

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Did the logs get renamed or moved?  I cannot seem to locate them in their usual spot, strangely.

Offline jamespetts gb

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No, there was no intentional change to logging locations. Odd.

Offline ӔO

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my logs are still in the same spot.

---

is it intentional that the game makes 100MB+ log files?
« Last Edit: May 22, 2014, 09:50:25 AM by ӔO »

Offline jamespetts gb

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Yes - the log files are large because they contain a great deal of detail, especially with TurfIt's work on more detailed logging for the desyncs.

Offline Sarlock

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Error on my end, I figured it out... I had inadvertently added a random character to the -log command and didn't notice.  :o

Offline ӔO

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Sarlock, you still have many many ships that are stuck in 'no load', possibly because they are 3 tile long schooners that you replaced with 2 tile long brigs.

Offline Sarlock

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Yes, I am cycling through them sequentially and resolving them as well as several other things that I am changing with those lines (to make them better mesh with the rail lines)... so it's a slow progressive process.  Thanks for the heads up, however.  :)

Offline jamespetts gb

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Server now restarted with new version 11.33 - TurfIt is hopeful that he has found the desync issue, which I have fixed according to his instructions. I should be grateful for feedback on how this works out.

Offline wlindley us

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For the first time in months, it works for hours at a time. Hooray!  Getting started at this late date (1850) and up against entrenched competitors is a bit of a challenge.

Offline ӔO

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I haven't desync'd thus far, so it looks like turfit nailed it.

A job well done.

Offline jamespetts gb

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Three cheers for TurfIt!

Offline Sarlock

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Indeed!  I'm late to the party as I wanted to have a few hours of evidence before I cautiously declared anything, but it is running much, much better now.  I have had one checklist mismatch desynch (and one socket disconnect) in about 6 hours of play, which is pretty amazing.

wlindley: starting with road transport is a hard way to make money in 1850.  Use ships instead and find some cargo to truck around -- start by connecting it to one of our main freight hubs for some quick profits (and a guaranteed market).  Find a couple of cattle farms and connect the milk to our networks.

Offline wlindley us

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Sarlock: Good point.  But now I'll have to wait until the bankruptcy reaper comes along  :-[

Offline ӔO

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I think there is a major deficiency in the western island with its north-south connection, which is possibly causing the backlog of pax there right now.
I don't know if volvo wants to work on that or not, but it is an opportunity.


I don't want to do it, because it's a hassle maintaining a massive pax network.