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Author Topic: Option:Remove loading time  (Read 4189 times)

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Offline Lus1531

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Option:Remove loading time
« on: July 16, 2014, 12:20:48 AM »
In Japan, Some people think this is not good function.(by twitter community)
Japanese player tends to like overcrowding operation(traffic on track is 50~80), so some  people think this function is obstacle to operation.
Some people still use unstable nightly version between stable 112.3 to 120.0RC, because want to use single or double slope but not want to use loading time.

This situation is not so good, would you consider to be of options?

---P.S.---
Point is, I think least loading time 2000ms is many, want to can start 0ms.
And option(such as simuconf.tab) that allows the same way as the previous versions, so all 0ms loading time.
« Last Edit: July 16, 2014, 12:49:10 AM by Lus1531 »

Offline DrSuperGood

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Re: Option:Remove loading time
« Reply #1 on: July 16, 2014, 05:13:46 AM »
I think there was always meant to be loading delay just recently it was added. The best solution currently is to design your tracks better so that you do not get convoys to stop mid journey. In experimental loading delay is a big part of the game with some convoys taking game hours to load so 2 seconds is hardly a challenge in comparison.

With trains using drive through stations you can compensate for loading delay by parallel platforms. Instead of a single platform for each direction you make it double with platform choose signals. This means that another train can come in and wait while another finishes waiting and departs. With terminals you can just add an extra platform or two, the loading delay does not make much difference as flow is already limited by how quickly trains can navigate to and from platforms.

Road convoys are more difficult. If a terminal is used such as trucks loading goods, then you will probably need to use the bay choose sign. This will only really work well when operating in a flow such as the JIT2 system I created in another thread as otherwise goods bursting will cause a pile up of road convoys by the sign. Drive throughs are also tricky for road vehicles and probably where loading times hurt the most as you cannot really use parallel loading platforms like with trains as the infrastructure to deploy them will be considerably larger than the stop itself. The only solution in this case may be some complicated infrastructure using elevated roads (if pak allows) or tunnels to allow different lines with less traffic each to service the same area. An example of this is subway stacking which I deployed in prissis servers a while back to cope with overly long subways servicing highly built up cities in pak64.

Offline Lus1531

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Re: Option:Remove loading time
« Reply #2 on: July 16, 2014, 06:37:47 AM »
Sorry, we can solve platform overcrowding the way, but in fact, many people already know it.
In Japan, station distance interval is short and parallel platforms is little.(and many Japanese player use parallel platforms to run express train, not distribute loading.)
If this is specification of Simutrans system, it nevertheless have problem to portray Japanese transport (Such as PAK128.Japan).

But it is absolutely about road convoys, so I am give up to run road convoys and use rail vehicles if roads are much overcrowding.
So same problem(platform overcrowding) occur this way.
There is a solution to provide a bypass route as Shinkansen, but I think multi-stack subway is unrealistic, other solutions also want.

Offline kierongreen

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Re: Option:Remove loading time
« Reply #3 on: July 16, 2014, 08:13:25 AM »
You should be able to set individual vehicles (or indeed whole paksets) to have short loading times?

Offline DrSuperGood

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Re: Option:Remove loading time
« Reply #4 on: July 16, 2014, 11:42:26 AM »
Quote
There is a solution to provide a bypass route as Shinkansen, but I think multi-stack subway is unrealistic, other solutions also want.
Yeh sorry my mistake. I sometimes forget people use Simutrans as a model railway simulator rather than a game. Although stacked subways functionally solves problems, it certainly destroys any kind of realistic impression.

Offline Leartin at

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Re: Option:Remove loading time
« Reply #5 on: July 16, 2014, 12:23:05 PM »
You should be able to set individual vehicles (or indeed whole paksets) to have short loading times?
The shortest loading time is 2000ms, which (s)he already mentioned:
Quote
Point is, I think least loading time 2000ms is many, want to can start 0ms.
Possibly the option in question is not to turn off the loading time system as a whole, but change the lowest available loading time. That way it would be possible for pak.japan to adjust it's vehicle to a much lower loading time - at least those for subways wiith employees to push the pax in faster - while loading time can still be used for other vehicles. I take the wild guess that those 2000ms are a constant somewhere in the code, so it should be possible to change it to a varible read from simuconf.tab?

Offline Ters

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Re: Option:Remove loading time
« Reply #6 on: July 16, 2014, 02:24:57 PM »
The waiting time of 2000 has been there for ages, so that shouldn't start causing problems now. A more likely cause is that vehicles have a possibly rather high default loading time. Recompiling the paks might solve it, if the sources are still around.

Offline TurfIt

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Re: Option:Remove loading time
« Reply #7 on: July 16, 2014, 02:35:02 PM »
Point is, I think least loading time 2000ms is many, want to can start 0ms.
And option(such as simuconf.tab) that allows the same way as the previous versions, so all 0ms loading time.
The 2 sec loading time has been around basically forever - predates version 84.20. So, if you're seeing some different behaviour between 112.3 and 120.0RC, that sound's like a bug...
Unless you've set your PAK128.Japan vehicles to have a longer loading time. The optional loading time is set in the pak on a per vehicle basis, and defaults to 1 sec which would have no effect due to the 2 sec minimum.

The 2 secs is also used to prevent excessive CPU usage while vehicles are waiting for a full load, so this isn't going anywhere.


---
aand Ters ninja posted the same thing...

Offline Ters

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Re: Option:Remove loading time
« Reply #8 on: July 16, 2014, 05:11:10 PM »
The optional loading time is set in the pak on a per vehicle basis, and defaults to 1 sec which would have no effect due to the 2 sec minimum.

As far as I can see, the new per vehicle setting is summed up, so it can easily pass the 2 second minimum when dealing with trains.

Offline TurfIt

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Re: Option:Remove loading time
« Reply #9 on: July 16, 2014, 07:07:04 PM »
It was summed originally, prissi changed it in r7090 to wait for the time of the slowest loading vehicle in the convoi. Parallel vs serial loading, but still not perfect as it loads front to back, not truly parallel with the amount loading divided evenly between the vehicles.

Offline DrSuperGood

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Re: Option:Remove loading time
« Reply #10 on: July 16, 2014, 08:03:12 PM »
Surely you would want this kind of realism however? I mean trains in real life do not just magically load by touching the platform, subway trains like used in the Glasgow Underground wait at least 5 seconds at a stop (no one on the platform), 10 seconds (only a few people on and off, or 30-40 seconds (huge number of people boarding/alighting.

Offline Ters

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Re: Option:Remove loading time
« Reply #11 on: July 16, 2014, 08:16:54 PM »
Surely you would want this kind of realism however?

As I've mentioned before, everyone seems to have their own view of what Simutrans is about and have their own playing style. Some play Simutrans just for the looks, and don't care for economy or realism.

Offline Lus1531

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Re: Option:Remove loading time
« Reply #12 on: July 17, 2014, 03:24:54 PM »
Oh, I have not know loading time of older version is 2000ms.
So my request that loading can start 0ms is little useless...

Well... I want option to set loading time of all vehicles to 2000ms, but this request may be rude to the author who made ​​the add-on because remove the features that put much effort the author.
I withdraw this topic. Thank you for letting me know the detailed specification.  It was informative!

Offline prissi

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Re: Option:Remove loading time
« Reply #13 on: July 17, 2014, 10:28:07 PM »
It is very easy to set the loading time to whatever you like. You have to edit simconvoi.cc

at the very end of:
void convoi_t::hat_gehalten(halthandle_t halt)
...
Set
   // at least wait the minimum time for loading
   wait_lock = time;
}
to wait_lock=0;