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Author Topic: SNFOs tutorial addon making -- noddy325's questions and problems:)  (Read 5423 times)

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Offline Commander Noddy

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Gauthier this post is set by me and I will post questions about making addons:)
Very fast, I meet the first problem. Is pixel art makes only small objects? Can I use it to make SNFOs high-rise buildings that you worked on and road?
Gauthier I will have many questions to ask you afterwards, sorry for disturbing you.
I will be your follower:) Hope I can learn from you :D

Offline Commander Noddy

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Re: SNFOs tutorial addon making -- noddy325's questions and problems:)
« Reply #1 on: August 08, 2014, 05:54:51 PM »
Master Gauthier~

Is photofiltre for pixelart and google sketch-up for 3D?
I will still follow your steps cause pixel art is the basic one as you said.

By student noddy325

Offline Commander Noddy

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Re: SNFOs tutorial addon making -- noddy325's questions and problems:)
« Reply #2 on: August 08, 2014, 06:27:39 PM »
Master Gauthier~

I have the first problems about pixel art. I don't know what is "draw lines of 48*24 pixels in both directions (from top to bottom and from bottom to top) with width of 1 witheout antialiasing" Can you explain to me? Thank you master.

By student noddy325

Offline Leartin at

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Re: SNFOs tutorial addon making -- noddy325's questions and problems:)
« Reply #3 on: August 08, 2014, 06:47:41 PM »
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Is pixel art makes only small objects?
You can use pixel art for objects of any size. What's more, you need to use it, even if you decide to use a 3d modelling program you still need to clean up pixel by pixel

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Is photofiltre for pixelart and google sketch-up for 3D?
Yes, but there are many more programs for both

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draw lines of 48*24 pixels in both directions (from top to bottom and from bottom to top) with width of 1 witheout antialiasing
you use a pencil that's only one pixel big (that is, if you click once with it, you create exactly one pixel on the canvas)
you make sure anti-aliasing is off. To find out if it's on, just draw a line. If there are any pixels which are not 100% the color you chose to draw with, but something inbetween the background color and the drawing color, anti-aliasing is on.
To create the 48*24 line, put a starting point anywhere on the canvas, the end point of the line will be 48 pixels to the left and 24 pixels up. Connecting those two by a straight line creates as shown in the tutorial (a combination of two-pixel-rectangles touching at the corners)


Offline Commander Noddy

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Re: SNFOs tutorial addon making -- noddy325's questions and problems:)
« Reply #4 on: August 08, 2014, 06:56:13 PM »
You can use pixel art for objects of any size. What's more, you need to use it, even if you decide to use a 3d modelling program you still need to clean up pixel by pixel
Yes, but there are many more programs for both
you use a pencil that's only one pixel big (that is, if you click once with it, you create exactly one pixel on the canvas)
you make sure anti-aliasing is off. To find out if it's on, just draw a line. If there are any pixels which are not 100% the color you chose to draw with, but something inbetween the background color and the drawing color, anti-aliasing is on.
To create the 48*24 line, put a starting point anywhere on the canvas, the end point of the line will be 48 pixels to the left and 24 pixels up. Connecting those two by a straight line creates as shown in the tutorial (a combination of two-pixel-rectangles touching at the corners)
Thanks for your kindness:D

Offline gauthier

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Re: SNFOs tutorial addon making -- noddy325's questions and problems:)
« Reply #5 on: August 08, 2014, 09:32:39 PM »
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Master Gauthier~
Finally someone who realizes who I am  8)

Leartin partially answered you, I'll do the rest :)

My tutorial is oriented rather toward pak128 than any others, so I must complete Leartin's answer :
_ In most paksets (pak128, pak64, pak128 britain, etc ...), pixel-art gives best results on small objects as you completely handle the pixels of your creation. For large objects such as citybuildings, pixel-art isn't as efficient since you can't have the same precise handling due to the much higher ammount of pixels. On the contrary, 3D is good for large objects, but, to my mind, less efficient than pixel-art for small objects : it's difficult to get a good result with 3D rendering on small objects like trains, other vehicles, etc ... most people tend to put too much details in their models which overloads the final results with tiny details your eye can't understand.
_ In comic style paksets (like pak192 comic which Leartin usually works on ;)  ), there's no 3D at all. The "comic" graphical chart makes pixel-art the only appropriate way to desing objects. Therefore, in these paksets, you can make everything with pixel-art.

Yes, photofiltre is an image editor (like MS paint, paint.net, gimp, photoshop, ...) so it's for pixel-art. Google sketchup is a 3D modeling software (like blender, maya, 3DSmax, ...) so it's for 3D.

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pixel art is the basic one as you said.
Not really. P-A and 3D are two different ways to achieve a same goal. What I meant in the introduction of my tutorial is that P-A is faster and less tedious to learn, so it's a good way to start making addons, but you could as well have started with 3D without passing by P-A ... These are really completely different things. For instance, I have never used a 3D modeler until now.

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I have the first problems about pixel art. I don't know what is "draw lines of 48*24 pixels in both directions (from top to bottom and from bottom to top) with width of 1 witheout antialiasing" Can you explain to me? Thank you master.
Leartin answered you with the tedious way (the real pixel-arter way :p ). It's better for short lines but my tutorial doesn't mean to bother "students" with painting 48 pixels one by one. At this point of the tutorial, you are supposed to use the line drawing tool of photofiltre and draw the right line (48*24) using the numbers displayed at the bottom of the screen when you start a line (ie when mouse button is down and kept down until you placed the cursor at the end of the line).

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you still need to clean up pixel by pixel
As I said, I never used a 3D modeling program (not for my addons anyway) but I doubt of what you're saying here. If the ammount of details is well managed on the 3D model, the result should be good enough not to rework it entirely pixel by pixel.
However, it's true that an after-treatment is needed after 3D modeling, mostly checking special colors.

Offline Leartin at

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Re: SNFOs tutorial addon making -- noddy325's questions and problems:)
« Reply #6 on: August 09, 2014, 06:07:53 AM »
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If the ammount of details is well managed on the 3D model, the result should be good enough not to rework it entirely pixel by pixel.

No, not entirely (unless you pixel for a comic pak), but I would think that you usually get your model rendered with alphachannel, which you'd need to clean up manually. Even if you can turn it off and render without alpha, I doubt it would really be clean.

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For large objects such as citybuildings, pixel-art isn't as efficient since you can't have the same precise handling due to the much higher ammount of pixels.
I don't see it that way. If you just create a cube, it does not matter how big it is, neither in pixel art nor 3d modelling. But the bigger an object the more details you can (and should) include. Since the amount of details is the same in modelling and pixeling, it should not matter how big an object is. You can copy/paste in both, use textures in both, use premade objects in both... not to say it wouldn't be easier to use the cube-tool in modelling instead of manually pixeling the cube, but that's size independent.

Offline Commander Noddy

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Re: SNFOs tutorial addon making -- noddy325's questions and problems:)
« Reply #7 on: August 09, 2014, 06:20:05 AM »
Thank you leartin and gauthier. I am practicing the lines right now. After I've finished the lines, I will post it here to let you two check if I've learnt correctly:)

Offline gauthier

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Re: SNFOs tutorial addon making -- noddy325's questions and problems:)
« Reply #8 on: August 09, 2014, 07:24:57 AM »
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I don't see it that way. If you just create a cube, it does not matter how big it is, neither in pixel art nor 3d modelling. But the bigger an object the more details you can (and should) include. Since the amount of details is the same in modelling and pixeling, it should not matter how big an object is. You can copy/paste in both, use textures in both, use premade objects in both... not to say it wouldn't be easier to use the cube-tool in modelling instead of manually pixeling the cube, but that's size independent.
I used to think this way too until I made High buildings for pak128. What you are saying is good for comic paks but doesn't work as well for other paks.
_ Vehicles, ways, bridges, stations, etc ... are easy to make nice with pixel-art because their graphics are well guided, there are mostly very simple lines and shapes in them.
_ Other buidlings have no such graphical constraints, thus, if you want to have something else than a simple cube, everything can get very tedious. Also : large graphic => need for many details => even more tedious. That's why I think it would be much easier using a 3D modeling program than painting all the details by hand.

Copy/paste is a way to include details quickly, that's sure, but the result is that the player will see something repetitive in the building and/or between several buildings.

Offline Leartin at

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Re: SNFOs tutorial addon making -- noddy325's questions and problems:)
« Reply #9 on: August 09, 2014, 10:29:22 AM »
Simple lines and shapes are simple in both pixelling and modelling. If it gets more complicated, it gets more complicated for both pixelling and modelling. There are some differences though:
Modelling has a big advantage at more complex geometric shapes which don't follow the axis. A good example is the Atomium, for modellers, it's a simple cube shape. For pixellers, it's a weird hexagon shape that never looks quite right in an isometric view. Actually, I had London Egg 30 St Mary Axe modelled and rendered, because I really did not want to have to pixel that structure from scratch.
Pixelling has an advantage at organic shapes and small details. That's because you can simply draw them instead of construct them. If you pixel a detail, you can be sure it is seen. If you model it, you may put work into something that's not even visible at the end. Just as an example, you want a parasol in the garden. It's certainly small enough so that you can pixel it without any construction lines or measurements. but if you want to model it, the small size does not make it easier, you'd still have to model the parasal just as if it was bigger to get the lighting and everything right.

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Copy/paste is a way to include details quickly, that's sure, but the result is that the player will see something repetitive in the building and/or between several buildings.
In p192c, that's part of the style, encouraged, and we think it works quite well. Pak128 uses c&p a lot, too. and, as far as I can see, most of it is pixelled or heavily refined after rendering. This means a row of windows quite often shows exactly the same window over and over.
Render images like those of napik don't even fit in.

That's to say, I still believe even in pak128, everything at any size could be pixelled without being inferior to a modelled counterpart.

Offline gauthier

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Re: SNFOs tutorial addon making -- noddy325's questions and problems:)
« Reply #10 on: August 09, 2014, 11:22:35 AM »
It's true though large size objects will take a lot more time if you want them as nice as 3D models.