### Author Topic: Assymetric bridges/For rotations for rotations  (Read 3717 times)

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#### Václav

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##### Assymetric bridges/For rotations for rotations
« on: July 23, 2015, 01:30:34 PM »
Some time ago I asked for experimental bridge designs - but I forgot that they can be only symetric. And I would like to ask if this can be broken with making bridges full-rotated.

So, bridge would have

2 center tiles (north-south and west-east) as it already has - because center tiles would be the same
2 pillars as it already has
8 sloped ramps (north, south, west and east for entrance and exit)
8 flat ramps (north, south, west and east for entrance and exit)

By the way, the best result with using of it would be on very short bridges (bridges with max_length = 2)

I know about discussion about making bridge very complexive that took place some time ago - and I think that this my idea is a ?much easier for implementation than that original idea.

#### DrSuperGood

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##### Re: Assymetric bridges/For rotations for rotations
« Reply #1 on: July 23, 2015, 03:36:06 PM »
How would rotation be specified from a UI perspective? How would the game know if a bridge is pointing north or south? I imagine this is why they currently use the symmetric approach.

#### Isaac.Eiland-Hall

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##### Re: Assymetric bridges/For rotations for rotations
« Reply #2 on: July 23, 2015, 06:22:03 PM »
Probably directional based on the placement order - it either gets dragged or two clicks - so either way, building a bridge is directional.

Technically, if we were to ever get one-way roads, could do them that way, too. Or anything else that needed a direction.

#### Václav

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##### Re: Assymetric bridges/For rotations for rotations
« Reply #3 on: July 23, 2015, 06:38:00 PM »
Probably directional based on the placement order - it either gets dragged or two clicks - so either way, building a bridge is directional.
Right.

I don't know how else players build bridges, but I build bridges with one click - from place A to (unknown) prepared place B that game has to find. I found that it is still the most comfortable style of building of bridges.

#### Ters

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##### Re: Assymetric bridges/For rotations for rotations
« Reply #4 on: July 23, 2015, 09:18:28 PM »
But what if you want the bridge to face the other way? With symmetric bridges, it doesn't matter which way you build the bridge. It ends up the same either way. Dragging isn't so problematic, you can drag either way, but when clicking, you must start at the end where you've already built something. You'd need some "secret" keypress that tells the bridge builder to build the bridge backwards. This will continue to move the learning curve upwards.

#### Leartin

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##### Re: Assymetric bridges/For rotations for rotations
« Reply #5 on: July 24, 2015, 11:11:46 AM »
You can already create asymmetric bridges. Just design the "north" end differently to the "south" end, and there you go. Granted, if you rotate the map the asymmetry does not rotate properly, but that's just a minor issue, at least to me. (Unless the rest of the pakset really rotates. But is that the case?)

If you want to have rotateable asymmetric bridges, you'd need directional middle parts. The first "asymmetric bridge" that came to my mind is one that has an extension on one side for bikes and pedestrians, and that would influence the looks of the middle part.

20 Images is btw. the minimal number an asymmetric bridge would have without front image, winter graphics, or half heights. Adding all these, an asymmetric bridge might very well have 160 images, if one decided he really needed all options.

#### Václav

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##### Re: Assymetric bridges/For rotations for rotations
« Reply #6 on: July 26, 2015, 04:50:24 PM »
20 Images is btw. the minimal number an asymmetric bridge would have without front image, winter graphics, or half heights. Adding all these, an asymmetric bridge might very well have 160 images, if one decided he really needed all options.
I don't think so - that bridges would have so many images.

8 * 4 = 32 (for sloped ramps; in case of half-height, with used front and back)
8 * 2 = 16 (for flat ramps; in case of used front and back)

2 * 2 = 4  (for center tiles; in case of used front and back)
2 (for tiles)

Total = 54

#### Ters

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##### Re: Assymetric bridges/For rotations for rotations
« Reply #7 on: July 26, 2015, 05:30:59 PM »
For flat ends: There are 4 ends, starting from 2 different slopes, in 2 different orientations each. That's 16 just for back images.

#### Leartin

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##### Re: Assymetric bridges/For rotations for rotations
« Reply #8 on: July 26, 2015, 05:47:53 PM »
"Classic": 4 sloped ramps', 4 flat ramps, 2 center tiles, 2 pillars = 12
"Half Height": 4 half-sloped ramps, 4 flat ramps on half slopes. = 8
12+8=20
Assymetry: *2 (that is, if center tiles and pillars are assymetric as well)
Winter: *2 (everything can have a winter graphic)
Front image: *2 (everything can have a front graphic)
20*2*2*2=160
What you forgot to include in your number were the doubled flat ramps with half height, winter graphics and pillars. And that's understandable, you'd need to be crazy to create 16 different graphics just for pillars, but they exist (actually, I think you can even have "full height" and "half height" pillars, which would be even more potential images)

I did not mean that as an argument opposing the idea, but rather as an reminder that the max number is not important as all. After all, the current image count is 80, yet the last bridge I made with both winter and frontimage used only 44 images, and the one before just 30, and is still complete and usable.

') I use "sloped ramps" as those where the way itself is sloped and "flat ramps" as those where the way is flat, but which are buildt on slopes

#### Ters

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##### Re: Assymetric bridges/For rotations for rotations
« Reply #9 on: July 26, 2015, 08:27:34 PM »
Without doing a deeper research, my Simupak Explorer shows that bridges currently have defined 24 images per season. I'm not sure what they are all for, because I have no example of a bridge that has anything in all these images.

#### Leartin

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##### Re: Assymetric bridges/For rotations for rotations
« Reply #10 on: July 27, 2015, 12:45:41 PM »
I'm not sure what Simupak Explorer is, but could it be the last two are icon and cursor?

#### Ters

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##### Re: Assymetric bridges/For rotations for rotations
« Reply #11 on: July 27, 2015, 04:26:56 PM »
I'm not sure what Simupak Explorer is, but could it be the last two are icon and cursor?

No, those are separate. From the source code, these are the images (in German, at least for the most part, but close enough to English to be understandable I think): NS_Segment, OW_Segment, N_Start, S_Start, O_Start, W_Start, N_Rampe, S_Rampe, O_Rampe, W_Rampe, NS_Pillar, OW_Pillar, NS_Segment2, OW_Segment2, N_Start2, S_Start2, O_Start2, W_Start2, N_Rampe2, S_Rampe2, O_Rampe2, W_Rampe2, NS_Pillar2, OW_Pillar2

(And Simupak Explorer is my, unfortunately effectively private, tool for looking at what's in pak files, and also doing analysis of whole pak sets.)

#### kierongreen

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##### Re: Assymetric bridges/For rotations for rotations
« Reply #12 on: August 09, 2015, 12:24:45 AM »
I'd rather just go for the full 'complex' bridges to allow suspension and cantilever designs. It's on my todo list, don't know when it could get done though...