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Author Topic: Disabling of changing of the switches  (Read 2456 times)

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Offline Václav

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Disabling of changing of the switches
« on: July 27, 2015, 07:35:25 PM »
When new switches were added, very curious situation appeared. Switches change theirselves in accordance with trains (or cars) passing. But I think that they should be hard.

It means that if additional switches are available for any track (or road - even if I think they were prepared mostly for railways), they should be used instead original ones - and (it is more important) they should choose shape in accordance with building direction (or how to call that) and stay in this shape until reconstruction of track, not until the first passing of train (or car).


It means that


-----\
-----/\----

would be replaced (automatically) with

-----\
------\----

and this shape of switch would stay there until reconstruction - not until passing of the first train (or car) that would change direction of movement.

And it is sub-request: trains should not change direction of movement on switches. It means that trains will not use switches to going counter-ward any more (as is in scheme below).


-----\
------\----



Of course, there would be problem with choosing of shape in case of connecting of two parallel tracks.
« Last Edit: July 27, 2015, 07:46:24 PM by Václav »

Offline Ters

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Re: Disabling of changing of the switches
« Reply #1 on: July 27, 2015, 08:28:10 PM »
Although I'm not entirely pleased with how switches look now, I don't think your proposal would work in general. When I build your example, I build two horizontal tracks, then one vertical. There is no way the game can know that the vertical track should connect left or right, or both. Since Simutrans doesn't do backing and shunting, a 180 degree turn can be intentional (for me, mostly when sending vehicles to depot or clearing jams).

And it is sub-request: trains should not change direction of movement on switches. It means that trains will not use switches to going counter-ward any more (as is in scheme below).


-----\
------\----


That's an old request, and a difficult one to fullfill. And I don't think it's a sub-request, but likely a requirement for the rest. If would change a lot of the internal code (this is also what makes double diagonals like in Transport Tycoon impossible), make track construction more micro management (not that I care personally, but it's been raised as an objection before), and it would break compatibility with pak sets that don't have graphics for individual connections.

Offline DrSuperGood

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Re: Disabling of changing of the switches
« Reply #2 on: July 27, 2015, 11:25:04 PM »
Sorry but what is a switch?!

Are you talking about signals or the rail points graphics? Or even rail crossing?

Offline gauthier

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Re: Disabling of changing of the switches
« Reply #3 on: July 28, 2015, 12:16:10 AM »
Sorry but what is a switch?!

Are you talking about signals or the rail points graphics? Or even rail crossing?
;)


Offline DrSuperGood

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Re: Disabling of changing of the switches
« Reply #4 on: July 28, 2015, 05:13:29 AM »
You must remember that the point graphics are visual. As far as the mechanics go it is all block reservation and way connections. As such it is mechanically possible for a train to loop back at such a set of points you have shown.

With some form of pattern matching logic you might be able to get better default directions most of the time. However that might not be suitable for all layouts of points.

Offline Václav

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Re: Disabling of changing of the switches
« Reply #5 on: July 28, 2015, 02:30:07 PM »
There is no way the game can know that the vertical track should connect left or right, or both.
I think that way is in listening of signals.

In case of switch 2-1 it is quite clear which shape of switch should be used.


-----\
------\----


In case of switch 2-2 (it means in case of connection of two parallel tracks - like in corridors), signals would be listened.


--<x>--\---<x--
--<x>---\--x>--


This is switch 2-2 that is combination of two switches 2-1, where signals marked <x> may mean end/beginning of any else corridors. And by the way, I have not generally against original switches, I think that original switches may be used, but only in case like this.


--<x--\/---<x--
--x>--/\--x>--


Quote
Since Simutrans doesn't do backing and shunting, a 180 degree turn can be intentional (for me, mostly when sending vehicles to depot or clearing jams).
Of course, head stations - if you think this. I know. But I don't count them. Turning of 180 degrees in head stations is not problem. But some stations could be equipped (or in some places may be built) turnabout similar to those ones on end stations of trams.



I have already been building them (turnabouts) in tram networks in cities in my games. But currently it is a quite difficult to build them - because route plan have to be improved for them.

Offline Ters

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Re: Disabling of changing of the switches
« Reply #6 on: July 28, 2015, 04:39:19 PM »
I think that way is in listening of signals.

In case of switch 2-1 it is quite clear which shape of switch should be used.


-----\
------\----


No it's not. I could very well want


-----\
-----/\----


or maybe


  |
  \--\
-----/-----


But in any case, the internals of Simutrans only says whether you can get from one tile to the next. The request involves taking which tile you came from into consideration as well, and that is a major change. Someone started working on being able to have to parallel diagonals on the same tile. That faces the same restriction, and I don't know if that has killed that project, or if it is still moving silently along at a slow pace.