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Author Topic: Change of name to "Simutrans-Extended": sooner or later?  (Read 11734 times)

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Offline jamespetts gb

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Re: Change of name to "Simutrans-Extended": sooner or later?
« Reply #35 on: January 30, 2016, 12:38:16 PM »
"Expert" suggests that one would already have had to have mastered Standard to have any chance of making sense of what is now Experimental, which is not the intention; although internally complex, it is not intended to be extremely difficult for all players to start with, and I hope that it is not.

"Extreme" does not really summarise what what is now Experimental is about: there is nothing particularly extreme about it: it just has more features intended to add realism.

"+" seems to me not significantly different in meaning to "Extended", and has the disadvantage of being more different in appearance and pronunciation than "Experimental". Also, I am not sure whether this might cause difficulties with certain filesystems for the name of the executable; can Windows, Linux and Mac all cope with the + character as a filename?

"Expanded" suggests that what was there has got bigger, rather than that there are more things: "Expanded" would in the Simutrans context tend to imply more content, rather than more features. It would make more of a sense as name of a fork for a pakset than of the code.

"Extended", as I noted above, does not necessarily denote a pure superset: it is intended to denote additional features. People are unlikely to associate it with the second meaning given in the American dictionary in this context.

As to "Original" as against "Standard", is there any appetite for a new retronym for what we now call Simutrans-Standard? The idea of "Standard" was to connote that that version of Simutrans is the reference point: the version that sets the standard. "Original" might imply that it is an old version from which we have now moved on.

Offline Spacethingy

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Re: Change of name to "Simutrans-Extended": sooner or later?
« Reply #36 on: January 30, 2016, 05:18:49 PM »
Simutrans-EX would get my vote. It implies that the program is... extended? extra? still a little experimental?...i.e. this program is like the first one, but has a few extra things, a few different things, a rather different way of doing things and attitude toward things. Which is all pretty much true.

How about just adding some letters to the end that don't immediately imply anything, but make it distinct from Simutrans-standard? E.g. Simutrans-EFE (extended-forked-edition).

Rather less sensible suggestions: Simutrans Reloaded, Simutrans: the Developer's Cut, Simutrans Rescheduled, Fork in the Road etc. etc. Ever considered completely renaming the whole thing, e.g. Virtuatrans? Simutransit? :D

Offline jamespetts gb

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Re: Change of name to "Simutrans-Extended": sooner or later?
« Reply #37 on: January 30, 2016, 07:25:46 PM »
Thank you for your suggestions. I should rather have a descriptive name that retains "Simutrans" in order to make it immediately clear what it is: it is to similar to Simutrans-Standard to rename it entirely, I think.

Offline IgorEliezer br

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Re: Change of name to "Simutrans-Extended": sooner or later?
« Reply #38 on: January 30, 2016, 08:58:48 PM »
Guys, guaahys! This suggest-a-name game seems pretty fun. Lemme suggest one: Simutrans-ComplEX.

Cool?

No?!

I'm leaving... D:

* IgorEliezer back to his cave.

Offline isidoro

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Re: Change of name to "Simutrans-Extended": sooner or later?
« Reply #39 on: January 31, 2016, 01:04:04 AM »
[...]
As to "Original" as against "Standard", is there any appetite for a new retronym for what we now call Simutrans-Standard? The idea of "Standard" was to connote that that version of Simutrans is the reference point: the version that sets the standard. "Original" might imply that it is an old version from which we have now moved on.

I don't think there's such appetite.  It was just an example to support my thesis.  In fact, the name "Standard" precisely appears when "Experimental" was born to have a way to name both when needed.  Maybe I'm wrong but it's quite feasible that the first reference to the name appears in one of your posts about "Experimental" and you are the father of the creature.   :D

All in all, it's a name certified by usage.  Although you're right that we've never talked about whether it would be convenient to also add a surname to mainline Simutrans now that we have a well established fork in Experimental and keep Simutrans alone as the word to refer the family as a whole.

Offline jamespetts gb

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Re: Change of name to "Simutrans-Extended": sooner or later?
« Reply #40 on: January 31, 2016, 06:24:17 PM »
I don't think there's such appetite.  It was just an example to support my thesis.  In fact, the name "Standard" precisely appears when "Experimental" was born to have a way to name both when needed.  Maybe I'm wrong but it's quite feasible that the first reference to the name appears in one of your posts about "Experimental" and you are the father of the creature.   :D

All in all, it's a name certified by usage.  Although you're right that we've never talked about whether it would be convenient to also add a surname to mainline Simutrans now that we have a well established fork in Experimental and keep Simutrans alone as the word to refer the family as a whole.
Whether to rename Simutrans-Standard s, I think, ultimately not a decision for me.

Offline laos

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Re: Change of name to "Simutrans-Extended": sooner or later?
« Reply #41 on: February 01, 2016, 07:02:08 PM »
Experimental, for me, has always given a sense of "preview" or other nightly features for the Standard fork, rather than an entirely new approach. Extended does however give that impression, so I'd say do it now especially since anyone looking for experimental will see it simply renamed

Or just call the forums Simutrans Extended (Formerly Simutrans Experimental) for a few months.

Offline isidoro

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Re: Change of name to "Simutrans-Extended": sooner or later?
« Reply #42 on: February 01, 2016, 11:58:16 PM »
I think that that was the original idea of "Experimental".  A place where to test (or experiment) new features likely to be included in main Simutrans if liked.  But that flow of code from Experimental to Standard rarely (if ever) happened and eventually both lineages of code diverged too much and now Experimental is a fork on its own.

So the name "experimental" no longer applies and is confusing and should be replaced asap imho.

Offline An_dz

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Re: Change of name to "Simutrans-Extended": sooner or later?
« Reply #43 on: February 02, 2016, 01:13:11 AM »
Then comes Simutrans++, Simutrans#… :)
It has to be Simutrans#, Simutrans++ is Simutrans with just a few more stuff, Simutrans# is completely different but the same :)

"Original" might imply that it is an old version from which we have now moved on.
That's what I think of, the very first version by Hajo.

Although you're right that we've never talked about whether it would be convenient to also add a surname to mainline Simutrans now that we have a well established fork in Experimental and keep Simutrans alone as the word to refer the family as a whole.
To me there's Simutrans and Simutrans Experimental. I find useless to even use Standard unless you are comparing with Experimental to clarify to which you are referring.

Simutrans: Expeditions, sounds like a video game name
Really sounds like. Which makes me think of Simutrans Experience

Offline An_dz

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Re: Change of name to "Simutrans-Extended": sooner or later?
« Reply #44 on: February 03, 2016, 02:45:43 AM »
I looked the Wiktionary list of EX words and got some more options:
Simutrans Expressive
Simutrans Expressivity
Simutrans Express

Simutrans Exponent, so we can call it Simutrans^e :)

Simutrans Executable, to bring ultimate confusion when talking: :P
Quote
Quote
Quote
Quote
Does it happen immediately when you run Simutrans executable?
I'm not using Simutrans Executable
No, I'm talking about the game executable
From Simutrans Executable?



But seriously, James is British, why not a British name?
Simutrans EXtended Caracteristics And Logistics Into Bigger Ultimate Realism

Or, in short, Simutrans Excalibur.

Offline IgorEliezer br

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Re: Change of name to "Simutrans-Extended": sooner or later?
« Reply #45 on: February 03, 2016, 03:25:57 AM »
Or, in short, Simutrans Excalibur.
WOW, what a stretch!

Offline Leartin at

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Re: Change of name to "Simutrans-Extended": sooner or later?
« Reply #46 on: February 03, 2016, 06:15:19 AM »
But seriously, James is British, why not a British name?
Simutrans EXtended Caracteristics And Logistics Into Bigger Ultimate Realism

Or, in short, Simutrans Excalibur.

SImutrans EX Paksets will require to have a "sword in the stone"-monument to run. Players default names will be those of the knights of the round table, with Merlin as the Public. Great :D

Offline Dwachs

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Re: Change of name to "Simutrans-Extended": sooner or later?
« Reply #47 on: February 03, 2016, 12:30:05 PM »
I share isidoro's concern about the change to 'simutrans extended', 'simutrans++', etc. It implies that the other version is kind of 'simutrans deficient', 'simutrans--'.

What about speaking of flavors? In contrast to simutrans vanilla name it simutrans chocolate or simutrans xocolatl or  simutrans chocolatEX  for the extra x. :)

Offline jamespetts gb

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Re: Change of name to "Simutrans-Extended": sooner or later?
« Reply #48 on: February 03, 2016, 07:45:53 PM »
I share isidoro's concern about the change to 'simutrans extended', 'simutrans++', etc. It implies that the other version is kind of 'simutrans deficient', 'simutrans--'.

What about speaking of flavors? In contrast to simutrans vanilla name it simutrans chocolate or simutrans xocolatl or  simutrans chocolatEX  for the extra x. :)

That would be rather confusing to users, I think. I prefer a precise, simple and descriptive name (as "Experimental" originally was).

Offline vzrenggamani

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Re: Change of name to "Simutrans-Extended": sooner or later?
« Reply #49 on: February 06, 2016, 08:48:04 AM »
Or, in short, Simutrans Excalibur.

I am vote yes for this name ,

Offline HarrierST

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Re: Change of name to "Simutrans-Extended": sooner or later?
« Reply #50 on: February 07, 2016, 02:28:30 AM »
I share isidoro's concern about the change to 'simutrans extended', 'simutrans++', etc. It implies that the other version is kind of 'simutrans deficient', 'simutrans--'.
But isn't that the point - the original version is easier - to allow new players to get used to it.

 'simutrans extended' is an advanced version for more experienced users. Not all players will want to move to a more realistic, but more complex version.

Some want to play for fun, others, for realism.

So why not just call it "Simutrans Extra" - as it adds extra realism and complexity to those who want it.

It in no ways degrades other versions, just adds to them.

Just do not under-estimate the intelligencse of your players.

Offline DrSuperGood

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Re: Change of name to "Simutrans-Extended": sooner or later?
« Reply #51 on: February 07, 2016, 03:47:52 AM »
"Simutrans Advanced" would be better. It basically is a more complicated version of Simutrans, and hence the name fits it.

That is if you want to keep with the Simutrans brand. You could always put it under its own brand name.

Offline jamespetts gb

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Re: Change of name to "Simutrans-Extended": sooner or later?
« Reply #52 on: February 07, 2016, 12:17:46 PM »
"Extended" (or possibly "Extra", but see my comments in a previous post on that) has the particular advantage of sharing the first phoneme with "Simutrans-Experimental". Indeed, it is for this reason that, years ago, I chose the name of the Experimental version of the British pakset as Pak128.Britain-Ex, using the two letters that would be shared between the old and new name. The Swedish pakset has recently done something similar for the same reason. "Advanced" does not have that advantage (and is not the opposite of "advanced" "retarded"? The opposite of "extended" is merely "unextended").

As for separating the names entirely, given that a majority of both the code and the paksets are the same, given that Experimental and Standard players and developers are (very happily indeed) part of the same online community, given that the fundamentals of the games are the same with only details different, and given that most code changes in Standard are merged into Experimental, it makes sense to keep the same base name.