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Author Topic: Playing with the ground  (Read 15421 times)

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Offline Fabio

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Playing with the ground
« on: February 16, 2009, 01:50:18 PM »
I decided to have a look at grounds (and specially at slopes, foundations and sidewalk, if i can put some snow on it).
Here's the first screenshot: foundations.


I would like to make also an arc, like in pak96.comic, i'll try to see how does it look.

EDIT: the pic is big and it is hosted on my server. Right click and select View image to see it in its full dimension.

Offline Dwachs

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Re: Playing with the ground
« Reply #1 on: February 16, 2009, 01:57:00 PM »
looks good!

on the bottom row, there a fundament seems to be transparent.
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Offline Alex. Brose

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Re: Playing with the ground
« Reply #2 on: February 16, 2009, 02:08:18 PM »
Much nicer than before.

Texture seems a little bit oversized, though.

Offline Fabio

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Re: Playing with the ground
« Reply #3 on: February 16, 2009, 02:36:44 PM »
on the bottom row, there a fundament seems to be transparent.
there is a tree on its right, i'm afraid it's a display flaw independent from the foundations


Texture seems a little bit oversized, though.
well, bricks are 3 px high and a few px large. smaller than this i'm afraid no brick would be seen (anyway, they are smaller then before and much smaller than those of many other houses nearby. But once zoomed out you see only white lines and tiles look much bigger. see it full size here: http://public.gonella.eu/simutrans/simscr17.png

Offline Alex. Brose

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Re: Playing with the ground
« Reply #4 on: February 16, 2009, 03:10:56 PM »
Well, of course my statement was concerning the full size screenshot.  ;)

As graphic artist i am sure that it'll be possible to use smaller brick textures (just try, hehe) but hey...
...It's nice. I like it.

Offline Fabio

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Re: Playing with the ground
« Reply #5 on: February 16, 2009, 03:15:02 PM »
Ok, i'm sorry for the misunderstanding...
I'll try some more, but if in the meanwhile you can suggest me some nice textures ;)

Offline Fabio

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Re: Playing with the ground
« Reply #6 on: February 18, 2009, 09:44:18 AM »
Some more work on foundations.

Here's the screenshot:



see it full size here: http://public.gonella.eu/simutrans/simscr18.png

Feedback is appreciated, if the quality is enough, i'll release the sources for the main pak.
« Last Edit: February 18, 2009, 02:45:16 PM by fabio »

Offline sojo

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Re: Playing with the ground
« Reply #7 on: February 18, 2009, 10:27:51 AM »
I like it. Very cool!
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Offline Alex. Brose

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Re: Playing with the ground
« Reply #8 on: February 18, 2009, 10:36:27 AM »
Well done!
Carry on, fabio. :)

But listen, you'll have the pavement from the arcs on the water, if the slope was placed on the riverside.
The same procedure as shown in p96c. :D
« Last Edit: February 18, 2009, 10:41:43 AM by Alex. Brose »

Offline Fabio

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Playing with the ground - NEW FOUNDATIONS
« Reply #9 on: February 18, 2009, 02:47:23 PM »
Further improved:




see them full size here:
http://public.gonella.eu/simutrans/simscr19.png
http://public.gonella.eu/simutrans/simscr20.png

If (or when) the quality is high enough, i'll release the sources for the main pak.

Offline VS

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Re: Playing with the ground
« Reply #10 on: February 18, 2009, 03:40:24 PM »
Oh, wow. Very nice!

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Offline gauthier

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Re: Playing with the ground
« Reply #11 on: February 18, 2009, 05:59:46 PM »
I'm looking forward to have it in my game :D

Offline sojo

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Re: Playing with the ground
« Reply #12 on: February 18, 2009, 06:22:09 PM »
Very very nice. But some little things.

The shadow on the darker side should be from top to bottom not from bottom to the top. Or is it a reflection from the bottom?

I think the shadow on the sunside is to long. Your shadow need a very very high sun.
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Offline Fabio

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Playing with the ground - First release
« Reply #13 on: February 18, 2009, 07:16:19 PM »
Oh, wow. Very nice!
Thank you! I'll post it like this, because i'll be offline for a few days and it can go in nightlies.

The shadow on the darker side should be from top to bottom not from bottom to the top. Or is it a reflection from the bottom?
I think the shadow on the sunside is to long. Your shadow need a very very high sun.
I'll work to shorten the shadow on the S side.
On the E side, it is from SE to NE. On the bottom (and sometimes in the middle) there is some dark patch which comes from infiltrations and humidity in the wall.



download it here:
« Last Edit: November 29, 2012, 02:06:55 PM by Fabio »

Offline BudapestTRansport

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Re: Playing with the ground
« Reply #14 on: February 19, 2009, 12:10:54 AM »
no pak files just images?

Offline Alex. Brose

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Re: Playing with the ground
« Reply #15 on: February 19, 2009, 07:24:56 AM »
no pak files just images?

See:
Quote from: fabio
Thank you! I'll post it like this, because i'll be offline for a few days and it can go in nightlies.
You'll have to wait. :)

Offline Fabio

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Re: Playing with the ground
« Reply #16 on: November 28, 2012, 12:12:40 PM »
I took a short break from rail tracks, so I dug out this old project I had.

I started with the "natural" slope walls:



I quite like the rocky texture, I will try to edit it also as a rocky/alpine climate ground.

I will now try what I can do with city "artificial" slope walls, I just have a couple of ideas.
« Last Edit: November 28, 2012, 12:19:23 PM by Fabio »

Offline prissi

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Re: Playing with the ground
« Reply #17 on: November 28, 2012, 03:02:10 PM »
Actually same comment than in 2009 from ALex: Those rocks are somewhat too large.

NB: What could help to solve the brick problem: go for sandstone quaders.

Offline Fabio

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Re: Playing with the ground
« Reply #18 on: November 28, 2012, 03:39:59 PM »
Actually same comment than in 2009 from ALex: Those rocks are somewhat too large.

Well, actually they are not meant to be stones, but a wall cut into hard rock (e.g. gneiss) like here:


Source


Source


Source


Source

Looking at those pics, my texture seems quite in scale.



About bricks: I'll use the texture from bridges and tunnels (half the size of the 2009 attempt), it might still be a bit too big, but at least is consistent with many other objects in the pakset.

Offline greenling

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Re: Playing with the ground
« Reply #19 on: November 28, 2012, 04:21:30 PM »
Fabio
Those Pictures are very great.
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Offline Sarlock

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Re: Playing with the ground
« Reply #20 on: November 28, 2012, 04:58:55 PM »
I really like it... looks like rock to me at the right scale.  Nice work :)
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Offline greenling

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Re: Playing with the ground
« Reply #21 on: November 28, 2012, 05:03:47 PM »
I Think we need a Timline for texture.
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Offline sdog

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Re: Playing with the ground
« Reply #22 on: November 28, 2012, 05:53:17 PM »
The size of the rocks is quite ok i think. But there's a more fundamental problem with all such textures. Repetition. The pattern from repetition is the first thing i see, and this feels very unnatural.

Offline mEGa

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Re: Playing with the ground
« Reply #23 on: November 28, 2012, 06:03:22 PM »
The size of the rocks is quite ok i think. But there's a more fundamental problem with all such textures. Repetition. The pattern from repetition is the first thing i see, and this feels very unnatural.
I agree. I mean this mark (see joined file) is a main cause. If you delete it, the result will be better imho.
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Offline Fabio

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Re: Playing with the ground
« Reply #24 on: November 28, 2012, 06:07:33 PM »
Thank you!

But there's a more fundamental problem with all such textures. Repetition. The pattern from repetition is the first thing i see, and this feels very unnatural.

This is a very big and known problem, unfortunately :( (same apply to roads, to a certain extent).
It would be great if we could provide 3 or 4 different variants and the program picks randomly (or with a logic which appears random to human eye).

Another problem is that top and bottom borders would look better if slightly jagged, but my test lead to nowhere: either it leaves empty spots, either is hidden (bottom) or overrides what's built on the slope (top).

But as it is now, sure it's an improvement over the old texture.
I'll try to fix the mark pointed out by mEGa, then commit this one and work on the city artificial walls.

Offline Fabio

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Re: Playing with the ground
« Reply #25 on: November 28, 2012, 06:48:52 PM »
Ok, fixed and committed in r1056.


Offline Fabio

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Re: Playing with the ground
« Reply #26 on: November 29, 2012, 02:14:26 PM »
Here's an attempt at building basement walls:





I decided for retro concrete texture (same as bridges, etc...) considering that
1) There is no timeline for walls
2) Average game starts in 1930, plans are to extend the timeline back to 1870
3) Concrete might be an anachronism in 1870, but bricks can be after 1960, in 1930 concrete is very fine

I want to thank James Petts for inspiration about narrow arches: i got this idea reading here and here.

I hope you like it, sure it's an improvement over old huge bricks.
« Last Edit: November 29, 2012, 04:37:18 PM by Fabio »

Offline wlindley

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Re: Playing with the ground
« Reply #27 on: November 29, 2012, 03:02:39 PM »

Excellent, Fabio!

a more fundamental problem with all such textures... Repetition.


Clearly, underground textures should depend on the underlying terrain, which in turn should also impact whether clay mines, coal mines, or stone quarries get generated in that area! ....Oh, wait, this wasn't Simugeology?  8)

Offline greenling

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Re: Playing with the ground
« Reply #28 on: November 29, 2012, 03:05:32 PM »
Fabio & Wlindley
The building basement walls  looks good out, but i wish me a timeline of basements wall.
Those Walls was be build in the in the years 1750 until 1950, after 1950 comes basements in concrete.
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Offline Sarlock

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Re: Playing with the ground
« Reply #29 on: November 29, 2012, 03:38:54 PM »
Those look great!  Good choice on concrete style, a great balance between old and new.  Works just fine for me :)
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Offline Fabio

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Re: Playing with the ground
« Reply #30 on: November 29, 2012, 04:37:57 PM »
Thank you for your feedback!

In r1059.

Offline HDomos

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Re: Playing with the ground
« Reply #31 on: December 02, 2012, 09:03:34 PM »
Found a strange error:

Notice the two basement walls under the maglev aren't the the same

Offline Fabio

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Re: Playing with the ground
« Reply #32 on: December 02, 2012, 09:56:16 PM »
This is strange, but likely related to the game engine.

However the variety it creates is interesting, I will investigate.

Offline Sarlock

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Re: Playing with the ground
« Reply #33 on: December 02, 2012, 10:33:05 PM »
Interesting.  Game engine choice: it's choosing one graphics for the first tile (left one) and the double height graphic for the right tile.  Probably due to the fact that the left tile has flat ground in front of it and the right tile has a slope down to the water.  We never noticed it before because the previous graphic wouldn't have shown that difference.
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Offline dekema2

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Re: Playing with the ground
« Reply #34 on: December 26, 2012, 09:24:06 PM »
Is there a way you can color ground tiles to match nearby objects? For instance I may wat grey ground around my airport taxiway as an apron, or white ground under high speed rail. Or even brown ground for dirt. Any thoughts?

Offline VS

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Re: Playing with the ground
« Reply #35 on: January 05, 2013, 06:43:12 PM »
dekema - What you want is impossible, as of now.

I just realized that the two tiles on HDomos' screenshot have indeed different heights. A single tile has single height information. The slopes you can normally see are actually a sort of overlay, dependent on situation to front/back. But the basic height underneath is still there. Apparently, here the water tile is actually at water level, and has a slope that makes it behave like ground, while the mine has a flat foundation that raises the "effective tile base" one level higher. An open question is if using the slopes for wall calculation would be too hard, I guess...

edit: I realized something else :D One has to be careful about where the wall belongs to - what is its "home" tile! The one in front, or the one in the back? That might affect this, too. Also explains the behaviour of up/down slope tools a bit.

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Offline greenling

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Re: Playing with the ground
« Reply #36 on: January 06, 2013, 11:49:27 AM »
VS
The basement form fabio looks nice out but in the future looks those Basement crasy out.
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