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Author Topic: IET trains does not have the correct acceleration rate and livery variants  (Read 5731 times)

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Offline jamespetts gb

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Re: IET trains does not have the same acceleration rate and livery variants
« Reply #70 on: April 06, 2019, 10:32:17 PM »
About the acceleration rate thing, did you say that you wanted the acceleration rate in horsepower, because I found the horsepower for the class 800s on wiki. and the horsepower is 750 (560 kW) per engine (for I assume diesel).

The power is easy to find - it is the tractive effort that governs acceleration and that is hard to find (as discussed extensively above).

Offline thegamer7893 england

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The power is easy to find - it is the tractive effort that governs acceleration and that is hard to find (as discussed extensively above).

James, how did you find the tractive effort for the other trains in Simutrans?

Offline jamespetts gb

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James, how did you find the tractive effort for the other trains in Simutrans?

If they were not available on Wikipedia or another source, I had to guess based on extrapolating from other locomotives or multiple units whose tractive effort is known.

Generally, it is easy to find the tractive effort of locomotives, but difficult to find the tractive effort of multiple units. I believe that I did manage to find somewhere the tractive effort for some of the "Desiro" series of multiple units (the class 450, etc.), but I could not find it for many other units, and had to extrapolate many of the other modern units from this.

Offline thegamer7893 england

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Re: IET trains does not have the correct acceleration rate and livery variants
« Reply #73 on: September 14, 2019, 12:09:57 PM »
If they were not available on Wikipedia or another source, I had to guess based on extrapolating from other locomotives or multiple units whose tractive effort is known.

Generally, it is easy to find the tractive effort of locomotives, but difficult to find the tractive effort of multiple units. I believe that I did manage to find somewhere the tractive effort for some of the "Desiro" series of multiple units (the class 450, etc.), but I could not find it for many other units, and had to extrapolate many of the other modern units from this.

How should the tractive effort look like in terms of a figure and units?

Offline Rollmaterial fi

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Re: IET trains does not have the correct acceleration rate and livery variants
« Reply #74 on: September 14, 2019, 01:21:14 PM »
Tractive effort is a force, so the unit is Newtons (N). You will typically find it given in kN.

Offline Freahk

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Re: IET trains does not have the correct acceleration rate and livery variants
« Reply #75 on: September 14, 2019, 07:09:32 PM »
Wiki states that it has an acceleration of  0.7m/s² and a weight of 243t (5 cars set) or 438t (9 cars set)

As 1N:=1kg*m/s², this results in a tractive effort of

243000kg*0.7m/s²=170kN (5 cars set)
438000kg*0.7m/s²=307kN (9 cars set)

Could not find acceleration data nor weight for class 801


Please let me know for which trains you need tractive effort, maybe I can assist in this.


Edit: forgot to mention about brake force.
As Wiki states class 800 has a deceleration of 1m/s² in service, or 1.2m/s² in ermergency, this would result in
243kN or 292kN (5 cars set)
438kN or 526 kN (9 cars set)

Only thing you have to do now is calculate it down to single cars as I don't know how the engines are spread over the train.
« Last Edit: September 14, 2019, 07:33:33 PM by Freahk »

Offline thegamer7893 england

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Re: IET trains does not have the correct acceleration rate and livery variants
« Reply #76 on: September 21, 2019, 02:48:42 PM »
Wiki states that it has an acceleration of  0.7m/s² and a weight of 243t (5 cars set) or 438t (9 cars set)

As 1N:=1kg*m/s², this results in a tractive effort of

243000kg*0.7m/s²=170kN (5 cars set)
438000kg*0.7m/s²=307kN (9 cars set)

Could not find acceleration data nor weight for class 801


Please let me know for which trains you need tractive effort, maybe I can assist in this.


Edit: forgot to mention about brake force.
As Wiki states class 800 has a deceleration of 1m/s² in service, or 1.2m/s² in ermergency, this would result in
243kN or 292kN (5 cars set)
438kN or 526 kN (9 cars set)

Only thing you have to do now is calculate it down to single cars as I don't know how the engines are spread over the train.

Nice work.

Offline jamespetts gb

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Re: IET trains does not have the correct acceleration rate and livery variants
« Reply #77 on: September 22, 2019, 02:54:39 PM »
Freahk - thank you for this: this is most useful.

As you may be aware, we do not have any means of simulating bi-mode traction in the game at present, so the class 800 represents this as a diesel train and the class 801 represents this as an electric train. In reality, these are almost identical save that the class 801 has fewer diesel motor cars. The Wikipedia article does not specify whether the acceleration rate given is for diesel or electric power, and I suspect the latter. I have thus adjusted the class 801's tractive effort accordingly, and used a guessed figure for the 800 (being the previous figure for the 801). I have also updated the brake force based on your calculations and corrected the weight.

If you are able to extrapolate the correct tractive effort for any other multiple unit aside from the Desiro series, that would be very helpful, as that is the only unit for which I have actual tractive effort figures, I believe (I have a vague recollection that I might have a tractive effort figure somewhere for a much older electric multiple unit, but I cannot be sure now and I cannot remember which).

Likewise, if you are able to calculate the brake force for any modern multiple units, that would be most helpful. For reference, we use the maximum service braking rate in the game, not the emergency rate.

Offline Freahk

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Re: IET trains does not have the correct acceleration rate and livery variants
« Reply #78 on: September 22, 2019, 07:18:07 PM »
Good to know.
As I don't have my computer with my C++ dev environment in range currently, I will recalculate some tractive efforts and brake forces for MUs in the next few days.

Offline Matthew gb

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Re: IET trains does not have the correct acceleration rate and livery variants
« Reply #79 on: September 25, 2019, 05:21:14 PM »
James, there appears to be a typo in line 11 of br-800.dat:

Code: [Select]
speed=225simutrans-pak128.britain

Offline thegamer7893 england

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Re: IET trains does not have the correct acceleration rate and livery variants
« Reply #80 on: September 26, 2019, 08:21:36 PM »
Freahk - thank you for this: this is most useful.

As you may be aware, we do not have any means of simulating bi-mode traction in the game at present, so the class 800 represents this as a diesel train and the class 801 represents this as an electric train. In reality, these are almost identical save that the class 801 has fewer diesel motor cars. The Wikipedia article does not specify whether the acceleration rate given is for diesel or electric power, and I suspect the latter. I have thus adjusted the class 801's tractive effort accordingly, and used a guessed figure for the 800 (being the previous figure for the 801). I have also updated the brake force based on your calculations and corrected the weight.

If you are able to extrapolate the correct tractive effort for any other multiple unit aside from the Desiro series, that would be very helpful, as that is the only unit for which I have actual tractive effort figures, I believe (I have a vague recollection that I might have a tractive effort figure somewhere for a much older electric multiple unit, but I cannot be sure now and I cannot remember which).

Likewise, if you are able to calculate the brake force for any modern multiple units, that would be most helpful. For reference, we use the maximum service braking rate in the game, not the emergency rate.

The class 801s are electric only trains.

Offline Freahk

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Re: IET trains does not have the correct acceleration rate and livery variants
« Reply #81 on: September 26, 2019, 08:46:50 PM »
Sorry but you are wrong.
Class 801 is only in service at electrified tracks but in fact, the 5 car trains and the 9 car trains, both do have one (instead of 3 or 5 in case of class 800) diesel motors installed, allowing them to continue their journey at very limited speed and providing electrical energy e.g. for light using the installed 580 kW diesel generator, which is installed under the second last car, in case tracks electrification fails.

Offline thegamer7893 england

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Re: IET trains does not have the correct acceleration rate and livery variants
« Reply #82 on: September 26, 2019, 10:07:38 PM »
Sorry but you are wrong.
Class 801 is only in service at electrified tracks but in fact, the 5 car trains and the 9 car trains, both do have one (instead of 3 or 5 in case of class 800) diesel motors installed, allowing them to continue their journey at very limited speed and providing electrical energy e.g. for light using the installed 580 kW diesel generator, which is installed under the second last car, in case tracks electrification fails.

Ik that but in terms of general operation the class 801 is broadly electric only

Offline Freahk

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Re: IET trains does not have the correct acceleration rate and livery variants
« Reply #83 on: September 27, 2019, 12:26:45 AM »
Where in technical terms it remains a bi-mode.

Offline thegamer7893 england

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[Q] IET trains does not have the correct acceleration rate and livery variants
« Reply #84 on: September 27, 2019, 10:15:51 AM »
Hello James, I have just finished playing Simutrans and I notice that the class 801 has better acceleration the the class 800 and for some reason they are not livery variant so what I mean is that the class 800 should be able to have the Virgin Trains livery and also to have the same acceleration rate as its no different in real life whether its on diesel or electric. So can that be a possible fix please?

With the acceleration corrections imminent, will it be possible to allow both the class 800/801's to be able to be liveried into either the LNER (then VTEC) livery and the GWR liveries please?