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Offline zook2

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Strange passenger numbers and loading behavior
« on: December 05, 2017, 03:04:50 AM »
On a new map with last Friday's game version, I'm running a few clippers along the coast. I noticed strange behavior lately - lots of passengers bound for a specific port, lots of empty cabins of various classes but the ship left most of them standing at the quay. The other thing I don't understand (or might be buggy) is the wealth display for the ship.

Take clipper #21:

"via(detail)" shows 102/248 passengers and 0/700 mail loaded.

"Wealth (detail)" shows
102 passengers
8 passengers (Very high)
0/700 mail
20 m_class[2] Mail
18 Priority Mail
29 Normal Mail

Mail is called passengers in the detailed list, and the detailed passenger numbers indeed add up to 102.

Savegame here:

[Link to saved game removed as the host, Zippyshare, was attempting to infect users with malware]

Update: #21 leaves Goatock empty, despite lots of passengers waiting. I send it back manually, it travels a few tiles back, briefly touches the pier and sails again without a second of loading time.
« Last Edit: December 05, 2017, 11:54:34 PM by jamespetts »

Offline Ves

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Re: Strange passenger numbers and loading behavior
« Reply #1 on: December 05, 2017, 04:24:36 PM »
I will take a look and see. Thanks

Offline zook2

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Re: Strange passenger numbers and loading behavior
« Reply #2 on: December 05, 2017, 07:53:05 PM »
I've noticed that the Steerage Deck, as seen in the depot, has a loading time of an hour, while 1st and 2nd classes have none. The Frigate cabins, too.

edit: I just saw that's been reported already.
https://forum.simutrans.com/index.php?topic=17597.0

Offline zook2

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Re: Strange passenger numbers and loading behavior
« Reply #3 on: December 05, 2017, 09:59:13 PM »
I just downloaded today's build. The clipper cabins have correct loading times now, both in the depot and the actual ships, but many passengers of all classes are still left at the dock while the ship leaves with many empty cabins.

Funny thing is, if I manually send it back to the dock immediately, it touches the dock, loads correctly within a second and leaves again.

edit: the last point doesn't always work...
« Last Edit: December 05, 2017, 10:55:41 PM by zook2 »

Offline jamespetts gb

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Re: Strange passenger numbers and loading behavior
« Reply #4 on: December 05, 2017, 11:54:03 PM »
I am afraid that I cannot download your file, as Zippyshare appears to attempt to force me to install fraudulent malware pretending to be an update to Firefox, which I have now reported to the police. Can you upload your saved game to a more reputable service? I will delete the link in your post above, as this appears to be a dangerous site and there should not be links to it anywhere.

Offline zook2

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Re: Strange passenger numbers and loading behavior
« Reply #5 on: December 06, 2017, 12:16:39 AM »
Sorry about that; I haven't used them in a long time. Try this:
https://upstore.net/FrhKEz2

Offline jamespetts gb

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Re: Strange passenger numbers and loading behavior
« Reply #6 on: December 06, 2017, 12:28:47 AM »
I am afraid that that download link is so unfeasibly slow that it would take half an hour to download the file. May I suggest that you just upload it to files.simutrans-germany.com?

Offline zook2

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Re: Strange passenger numbers and loading behavior
« Reply #7 on: December 06, 2017, 01:58:53 AM »
OK, third time's the charm.
On files.simutrans-germany.com, look for 1.part01.rar - 1.part14.rar. Apparently file size is limited to 2MB each...

Offline DrSuperGood

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Re: Strange passenger numbers and loading behavior
« Reply #8 on: December 06, 2017, 05:45:52 AM »
I am also experiencing ships failing to pickup passengers on the server game to some extent. It seems that passenger ships poll for passengers at a dock periodically. If the frequency that the line operates is faster than this poll rate then the ship will depart without loading all the passengers waiting for it. The poll rate is very slow, almost like 30-60 minutes so you can get the redicilous situation where a ship departs with 6 passengers (how many were waiting when it arrived and polled) while the port has accumulated over 60 passengers which were left behind (accumulated during load/timetable wait time).

The solution would be to force a poll the instant before a convoy departs a stop. It would then see those 60 passengers waiting for it and then leave immediately. If it is a problem with loading times (more transferred means longer wait) then it should prevent departure and set the loading time appropriately for the required extra time. It is far better to have a convoy load for an extra few minutes for more people to transport than it is for the convoy to leave almost empty.

EDIT:
The problem seems to get worse the more ships/convoys there are. Now the ships are seldom loading passengers aboard (loads 0) despite 87 waiting at a port for that line (no other routes). Often visible on server game @(4996,2401), I will not touch this line as it seems to reliably show this bug.
« Last Edit: December 06, 2017, 07:20:18 AM by DrSuperGood »

Offline jamespetts gb

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Re: Strange passenger numbers and loading behavior
« Reply #9 on: December 06, 2017, 12:28:41 PM »
I think that I have now fixed this on the master branch - the problem was caused by an error in determining which convoys to skip attempting to load on the basis of there being no passengers of the correct class available (not taking into account that later vehicles in the convoy might be able to load passengers of the correct class). This fix should be available on to-morrow's nightly build. Until then, you can work around the problem by having higher class accommodation towards the back of convoys (this should be easier to achieve with ships by putting the first class holds near the back of the chain of holds).

Offline zook2

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Re: Strange passenger numbers and loading behavior
« Reply #10 on: December 07, 2017, 08:11:16 PM »
I tried this afternoon's version and it still seems broken. I have re-ordered the holds as you recommended and it improved the situation, but now I saw a clipper with room for 248 passengers and it loaded 93, leaving 34 behind.

It has 3 low class holds, 2 2nd class and one 1st class hold (in that order). Low class hold #1 is full, #2 and #3 are empty. 2nd class #1 is full, #2 is partly full. 1st class is half full. I have passengers of all classes still waiting at the dock, and they were already there when the ship docked.

There is no other line serving that port.

Offline jamespetts gb

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Re: Strange passenger numbers and loading behavior
« Reply #11 on: December 07, 2017, 10:49:26 PM »
Thank you for your report. I am not going to be able to fix this unless I am able reliably to reproduce it - are you able to indicate where on the server map that this reliably occurs?

Offline zook2

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Re: Strange passenger numbers and loading behavior
« Reply #12 on: December 07, 2017, 10:57:29 PM »
I haven't ever tried the multiplayer server. But if you have the 14-part savegame from files.simutrans I've uploaded a few days ago, you should find lots of ships with this behavior.

Offline jamespetts gb

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Re: Strange passenger numbers and loading behavior
« Reply #13 on: December 07, 2017, 11:26:22 PM »
I haven't ever tried the multiplayer server. But if you have the 14-part savegame from files.simutrans I've uploaded a few days ago, you should find lots of ships with this behavior.

May I ask which specific ships demonstrate this behaviour at which specific times so that I know exactly where to look to reproduce the issue?

Offline zook2

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Re: Strange passenger numbers and loading behavior
« Reply #14 on: December 07, 2017, 11:56:55 PM »
When you load the game, look for clippers #8 and #20. It's an older save, before I re-ordered the holds by class, but #8 should load all passengers to Stockbroke and #20 all pass. to Arlshampton, but they don't.

Offline Ves

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Re: Strange passenger numbers and loading behavior
« Reply #15 on: December 08, 2017, 12:04:44 AM »
Incidentally, I just chime in to say that I think I have found why the wealthy loadings looks so strange. It’s because it somewhere assumes that a new entry is another good index. I think I have found the place where this assumption is made and are looking into it.

Offline DrSuperGood

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Re: Strange passenger numbers and loading behavior
« Reply #16 on: December 08, 2017, 02:43:32 AM »
Can confirm something is not right.

My stop has dozens of medium wealth passengers waiting to depart on stage coaches (only way they can) but they refuse to load aboard.

The stage coaches have a capacity of 6 very low and 4 medium for 10 in total. They are loading up to exactly 10 passengers in total, 10 very low (6 + 4 over capacity) and 0 medium. More and more medium people and above are waiting but it is as if they cannot access the 4 medium seats which are instead left empty.

Or maybe these people are just Scrooge like misers and instead of paying for a Medium ticket will rather stand with the common folk for 3 hours to take a Very Low ticket. As long as a journey meets the requirements a more wealthy person should be willing to spend more on a ticket to get loaded immediately on their journey rather than have to wait with the poor folk.

Edit: Yeh I am starting to be more certain that these guys are just misers who like to queue rather than fork out a bit for one of the empty seats.

Edit2: No something is off, it still only loads to 10/10 even when the disused expensive seats are thrown in as common ones.

Offline zook2

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Re: Strange passenger numbers and loading behavior
« Reply #17 on: December 08, 2017, 03:16:17 AM »
I think it happens with low-class passenger holds in ships, too.

edit: it happens only with vehicles with more than one class accommodation available.

Offline Ves

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Re: Strange passenger numbers and loading behavior
« Reply #18 on: December 08, 2017, 01:46:57 PM »
Now I made a spell that tells the company managers (that would be you guys!?) that it is rude to pack passengers into mailsacks and crates, but they need their simuhuman rights to be threated as such. The spell is available here: https://github.com/VictorErik/Simutrans-Experimental-Ves/tree/small-gui-fixes

Quote
The stage coaches have a capacity of 6 very low and 4 medium for 10 in total. They are loading up to exactly 10 passengers in total, 10 very low (6 + 4 over capacity) and 0 medium. More and more medium people and above are waiting but it is as if they cannot access the 4 medium seats which are instead left empty.
I do not think is a GUI issue, James?

Offline jamespetts gb

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Re: Strange passenger numbers and loading behavior
« Reply #19 on: December 08, 2017, 09:58:40 PM »
Now I made a spell that tells the company managers (that would be you guys!?) that it is rude to pack passengers into mailsacks and crates, but they need their simuhuman rights to be threated as such. The spell is available here: https://github.com/VictorErik/Simutrans-Experimental-Ves/tree/small-gui-fixes

Splendid, thank you: now incorporated.


Quote
I do not think is a GUI issue, James?

No, I do not think so. I will investigate presently.

Offline jamespetts gb

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Re: Strange passenger numbers and loading behavior
« Reply #20 on: December 09, 2017, 01:06:09 AM »
I think that I have now fixed this - the fix should be available in the next nightly release.

Offline Junna

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Re: Strange passenger numbers and loading behavior
« Reply #21 on: December 09, 2017, 01:55:18 PM »
Passengers now do not overcrowd stage coaches at all, they do not load above 4 passengers (for all price levels). Not sure if this goes for other vehicles as well.

Offline jamespetts gb

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Re: Strange passenger numbers and loading behavior
« Reply #22 on: December 09, 2017, 02:11:44 PM »
Stagecoaches no longer support overcrowding, at least in the default pakset. Do they support overcrowding in your version of the pakset? If so, is the issue that all overcrowding is not working?

Offline wlindley us

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Re: Strange passenger numbers and loading behavior
« Reply #23 on: December 09, 2017, 02:30:26 PM »

Unsure if same issue, but goods are often still listed in the wrong type.  Grain (bulk) here shown as Long Goods. (commit 3bc8393)


Offline Junna

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Re: Strange passenger numbers and loading behavior
« Reply #24 on: December 09, 2017, 02:37:33 PM »
They do have overcrowded capacity, but do not load.

Other vehicles appear to still support overcrowding, but the overcrowding is not visible in the "details" page;



Only lists "18/18", despite the 9 overcrowding slots actually being used (train loaded 144/90 passengers).

Offline Ves

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Re: Strange passenger numbers and loading behavior
« Reply #25 on: December 09, 2017, 04:02:06 PM »
The overcrowding I will have to look into to understand why, but the wrong category types is most probably a bug from previous fix.

Edit:

Wlindley, could you send me the savegame? maybe upload it to the files.simutrans-germany.com?



Edit2:

Junna, my tests shows that it indeed shows up in the details view. Are you sure that it is not some of the other cars which are overcrowded (looks like its a long train)?
The line:
Code: [Select]
1 class: 18 (9) (1 reassigned class)... only tells us that the car has one class, with a total of 18 capacity and 9 additional capacity when overcrowded, and in the bracket it tells us that there is 1 class which is reassigned.

If none of the cars in you train indeed has any overcrowded passenger displayed in the manifest, could you send the savegame over then?


Btw, is the explanation in the window confusing? Any better way of doing it without taking more than 1 or max 2 lines?
« Last Edit: December 09, 2017, 05:15:13 PM by Ves »

Offline zook2

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Re: Strange passenger numbers and loading behavior
« Reply #26 on: December 09, 2017, 07:03:14 PM »
(Today's version)

Overcrowding capacity for coaches is still displayed, but not used. Also, coaches (with only one passenger class) sometimes do not load at all. AFAIK that is a new one.

Ships don't load correctly (still leave passengers behind).

Trains don't use overcrowding.

Offline DrSuperGood

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Re: Strange passenger numbers and loading behavior
« Reply #27 on: December 09, 2017, 07:15:55 PM »
Stage coaches are working better now but I am guessing they are still bugged. They support some form of over crowding but by the looks of it, its the result of using the wrong maximum load value rather than actual over crowding.

I fairly regularly see stage coaches with 12/10 people loaded, spread 6/6 (Medium) and 6/4 (High). Looks like it is using the Medium capacity to define the maximum capacity for High. This would explain various other bugs reported above as the different classes are using the wrong maximum values during loading.

Offline Junna

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Re: Strange passenger numbers and loading behavior
« Reply #28 on: December 09, 2017, 08:29:31 PM »
I'm using very low on the stage coaches, but they do not load above 4, ignoring the 9 overcrowding spots.

Offline DrSuperGood

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Re: Strange passenger numbers and loading behavior
« Reply #29 on: December 10, 2017, 12:34:02 AM »
Quote
I'm using very low on the stage coaches, but they do not load above 4, ignoring the 9 overcrowding spots.
The 1750 stage coaches are not meant to have any over crowding spots anymore. They have 6 Medium and 4 High spots. Currently it loads up to 6 in the High spot likely as the result of a bug (too convenient that it loads the same as Medium).

Offline Ves

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Re: Strange passenger numbers and loading behavior
« Reply #30 on: December 11, 2017, 08:01:47 PM »
Wlindley, could you upload the savegame with that bug, so I can look into it? On my testgame the bug doesnt exists, so I would be happy to have yours! :)

Offline Rollmaterial fi

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Convoys do not overcrowd
« Reply #31 on: December 11, 2017, 08:29:11 PM »
In this save, the busses of line "L Featheringate Bus 1" do not take standing passengers.

.sve: https://drive.google.com/file/d/1BTxRPA7JtdvY3nyYR6SSB4BEp8isGVue/view?usp=sharing

Offline Jando

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Re: Strange passenger numbers and loading behavior
« Reply #32 on: December 11, 2017, 09:24:41 PM »
Odd thing happened today to me, noticed a small horse bus didn't pick up passengers (class and so was okay). Checked station details and noticed that the list of direct destinations from that station was empty although the station was served by 3 lines. Reloaded the game and the list of destinations was shown again with travel time and distance. Perhaps related?

Offline jamespetts gb

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Re: Strange passenger numbers and loading behavior
« Reply #33 on: December 12, 2017, 12:26:19 AM »
Jando - are you able to upload a saved game in which this can (even after a period of time) reliably be reproduced in a specific place and at a specific time?

Offline jamespetts gb

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Re: Strange passenger numbers and loading behavior
« Reply #34 on: December 12, 2017, 12:51:09 AM »
In this save, the busses of line "L Featheringate Bus 1" do not take standing passengers.

.sve: https://drive.google.com/file/d/1BTxRPA7JtdvY3nyYR6SSB4BEp8isGVue/view?usp=sharing

Thank you for that report - I think that this is the same issue as has been reported on this thread following the initial fix, so I have merged the threads. I think that I have now fixed this, which fix should be available on the next nightly build. I should be grateful if people could confirm whether the remaining issues have now been dealt with.