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Author Topic: Please help me understand "No route" destination demand  (Read 662 times)

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Offline A92AA0B03E

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Please help me understand "No route" destination demand
« on: September 27, 2018, 09:33:08 PM »
Hi there,
I am trying to understand how to read the map so I can understand where people (and goods?) want to go when stations display "no route".

My understanding from reading previous thread such as https://forum.simutrans.com/index.php/topic,9206.msg94118.html#msg94118 is that I can look at either the Town Hall dialogue or the main map "with a town selected".

So first, the Town Hall dialogue, i can't decipher anything of any use there:


and then for the main map  "with a town selected" - is this what that means? i.e. I can clicked on the town hall?



Again, I don't really see anything I can work out.

For absolute clarity, I am using Sumtrans Extended but the same confusion applies to standard Simutrans  :)

If you wanted to recreate my map, here are my settings


Also, is there a colour key for the demand? The thread above people have obviously got that information from somewhere but I have failed to find it within the help/tutorial info so far.

The way I would like to play is kind of "analytical" - I want to know what is in demand (locations/produce) and create networks around that, rather than just connecting everything but without being able to understand what is in demand, I can't  :)

I would really appreciate any help.
thank you

Offline prissi

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Re: Please help me understand "No route" destination demand
« Reply #1 on: September 28, 2018, 12:15:07 AM »
The map is updated during a month, so you need to fast forward a month. Each traveller is generated by a random function, hence some number vary from month to month. Extended passenger generation is vastly different from the standard Simutrans.

For Simutrans for each passenger generated (the number depends on the level of the building) a certain percentage are factory workers (how much depends on the number of surrounding factories, size of twon etc.), Next another percentage are tourists. For them a random tourist attraction is chosen, the higher the level x area, the more likely a destination, and nearer are also more likely than far destinations (this changes over time). For the rest a random city is selected, again larger cities and more close cities (including the own) are more likely destinations. (The preference for nearby destinations decreases again over time.)

For you map, you should first make an inner city network in the largest town, with one large connection hub. Since this is by far the largest town, it will be the most likely destination of every passengers, including the ones in that town. Then connect this town to nearby larger cities, for instance the cluster to the bootom right looks promising. When you starting to transport passengers (and mail), some of the red overlay of no route turns more and more green (and yellow, if your stations overflow).

Offline An_dz

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Re: Please help me understand "No route" destination demand
« Reply #2 on: September 28, 2018, 03:51:35 AM »
The button "Colour Codes" shows you the scale Simutrans uses, purple for minimum, red for maximum.

If you want to minimise "No Route" you need to first connect the most attractive attractions, as prissi said. Enable the "Attraction" button in the map and check which of the most attractive places you don't have connections to, the larger the circle and the redder it is, more people want to visit it. Also note that the people of Simutrans don't make infinite transfers, if they need to take 3 busses, 2 planes and 3 monorails to get there they won't and it will add to "No route"

And as prissi said as well, the map of destinations only updates every month.

Offline A92AA0B03E

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Re: Please help me understand "No route" destination demand
« Reply #3 on: September 28, 2018, 01:13:55 PM »
The map is updated during a month, so you need to fast forward a month. Each traveller is generated by a random function, hence some number vary from month to month. Extended passenger generation is vastly different from the standard Simutrans.

For Simutrans for each passenger generated (the number depends on the level of the building) a certain percentage are factory workers (how much depends on the number of surrounding factories, size of twon etc.), Next another percentage are tourists. For them a random tourist attraction is chosen, the higher the level x area, the more likely a destination, and nearer are also more likely than far destinations (this changes over time). For the rest a random city is selected, again larger cities and more close cities (including the own) are more likely destinations. (The preference for nearby destinations decreases again over time.)

For you map, you should first make an inner city network in the largest town, with one large connection hub. Since this is by far the largest town, it will be the most likely destination of every passengers, including the ones in that town. Then connect this town to nearby larger cities, for instance the cluster to the bootom right looks promising. When you starting to transport passengers (and mail), some of the red overlay of no route turns more and more green (and yellow, if your stations overflow).

Thank you for the insight, that's definitely going to be useful for me!

The button "Colour Codes" shows you the scale Simutrans uses, purple for minimum, red for maximum.

Minimum and maximum available demand?

If you want to minimise "No Route" you need to first connect the most attractive attractions, as prissi said.
It's not necessarily that I want to reduce "No Route" - more than I want to provide routes that are going to be used.. which I guess in a roundabout way means I want to reduce  :)

Enable the "Attraction" button in the map and check which of the most attractive places you don't have connections to, the larger the circle and the redder it is, more people want to visit it.

So here's an example from standard Simutrans

So does the big red circle represent high demand to get to that Tourist Attraction?

Is there any way to see that kind of demand information for passengers/mail wanting to go town-to-town.

For example, this cement mill requires coal/stone and passengers, provides to a concrete factory
 

it tells me where the consumer/suppliers/workers locations are.

Is there a way to get that level of information for passenger and mail, town to town? So could I go to one town and view how many people want to travel to another? I realise this may very well change but it would be more fun (for me, at least) to have that kind of knowledge rather than just plonking track down and hoping (which is what I currently do and is not profitable!).


thank you both so much for your help so far, I already know a lot more about how to play.


« Last Edit: September 28, 2018, 05:16:21 PM by A92AA0B03E »

Offline An_dz

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Re: Please help me understand "No route" destination demand
« Reply #4 on: September 28, 2018, 05:50:34 PM »
Minimum and maximum available demand?
Yes. It's a scale for every tool, so it's also min/max speed limit, min/max waiting time, min/max traffic, etc.

So does the big red circle represent high demand to get to that Tourist Attraction?
Yes. Do note that it's the fixed demand, not the extra demand you are not meeting, so even if you manage to send everybody there the icon remains like that.

Is there any way to see that kind of demand information for passengers/mail wanting to go town-to-town. Or for freight,  supplier-to-consumer? Is there a way to get that level of information for passenger and mail, town to town?
No, you can only know where they wish to go, not which parts of the city have more demand. But as we said, that info only updates every month. But you don't really need that info, it's generally obvious where people want to go, small countryside cities and suburbs have low demand, big city centres with skyscrapers have high demand.

For industries you need to open their windows and check where the employees live, the numbers before the mail and the passenger icons determine the demand level.

Though a demand heat map could be implemented.

Offline A92AA0B03E

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Re: Please help me understand "No route" destination demand
« Reply #5 on: September 28, 2018, 06:26:38 PM »
Brilliant, thank you for all that. Time to experiment and play about I think.

Though a demand heat map could be implemented.
Sounds interesting. Maybe it#'s time to learn C++