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Author Topic: Purchased property compensation.  (Read 5394 times)

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Offline TrainMith

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Purchased property compensation.
« on: May 31, 2009, 04:11:18 AM »
When an industry becomes surrounded by a city and, for the time period currently available (pre-1930), railroads being the only transportation for goods, it might be better to have the ability to purchase land to compensate displaced citizens.  Instead of lowering the city population, the citizens would be compensated so that they would move to other areas within the city.  Maybe require only a percentage of the displaced citizens to remain within the same city, with the remaining moving permanently to other cities?  Obviously provide a game setting to revert to prior behavior would be good for those die-hard players out there.   ;)

This also would possibly allow for futuristic planning of routes, allowing the city to build around the purchased land.

Are there any thoughts on this?

Offline Asterix909

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Re: Purchased property compensation.
« Reply #1 on: June 01, 2009, 03:21:53 PM »
Heh, I never really thought of it that way...
...when I bulldoze a building to make space for another tile of rail platform I guess I am essentially removing that building's worth of residents from the city...

I have always considered the high cost of razing an NPC building as the cost of not just bulldozing it, but 'buying out' the residents. So I think the idea of compensating the displaced residents is already in place, but the relocation of those residents is not.

Offline jamespetts gb

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Re: Purchased property compensation.
« Reply #2 on: June 01, 2009, 07:27:13 PM »
Perhaps the easy way of doing it would be for bulldozing a building not to reduce a city's population, so that the city will automatically construct new buildings for them in due course.

Offline Colin

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Re: Purchased property compensation.
« Reply #3 on: June 01, 2009, 09:44:48 PM »
Heh, I never really thought of it that way...
...when I bulldoze a building to make space for another tile of rail platform I guess I am essentially removing that building's worth of residents from the city...

I have always considered the high cost of razing an NPC building as the cost of not just bulldozing it, but 'buying out' the residents. So I think the idea of compensating the displaced residents is already in place, but the relocation of those residents is not.

Of course you could always use the Increase City button in the Special Construction Tools. This will rebuild your house/houses and increase your population, very handy for earning more public transport money.

Offline TPIBAW

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Re: Purchased property compensation.
« Reply #4 on: June 01, 2009, 10:44:48 PM »
That is "cheating", so I don't know if that counts.

Yes, it is more realistic to pay for bulldozing and compensation. I wondered why citizens suddenly "die" when you destroy their homes.

Offline colonyan

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Re: Purchased property compensation.
« Reply #5 on: June 01, 2009, 11:18:14 PM »
I suppose citizens didn't die, but returened to outerworld where they originally they were.
Well, each way of interpreting it for each player I guess.

Offline Colin

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Re: Purchased property compensation.
« Reply #6 on: June 01, 2009, 11:34:16 PM »
That is "cheating", so I don't know if that counts.

Yes, it is more realistic to pay for bulldozing and compensation. I wondered why citizens suddenly "die" when you destroy their homes.

Well to my mind there is no way to cheat in Simutrans, If you enjoy the game you play it any which way you want.

I wonder if you would survive in a house that was being bulldozed.  ;D ;D

Offline z9999

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Re: Purchased property compensation.
« Reply #7 on: June 02, 2009, 06:45:11 AM »
As to city population.
There are 2 kind of number about city population, inner counter and displayed population.

Displayed population is calculated by sum of building and building levels and number of unemployed and homeless, but inner counter never decrease by breaking buildings. So, displayed population is very different from inner counter, in many cases. (I don't like this.)

All kinds of events, new attraction or new factories, are triggered by inner counter. So, displayed population has no meanings in current simutrans.

Offline Asterix909

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Re: Purchased property compensation.
« Reply #8 on: June 02, 2009, 01:21:01 PM »
So i think that the displayed count should always, reasonably, strive to match the inner count.
THat way, when I bulldoze a house, the displayed count will go down by that house's population. But, as I understand it from that last post, the inner count will remain steady. It would be nice if new buildings were constructed in the city to just as a part of normal growth, but to make the displayed count match the inner count.  That house I bulldozed would pretty much just essentially pop up on the other side of town. Or maybe merge its population with the normal growth population and form as an apartment building...

Offline prissi

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Re: Purchased property compensation.
« Reply #9 on: June 02, 2009, 09:29:37 PM »
The outer count has a meaning, since it determines ultimately how many passenger are created. The inner counter just determines factory growth and when a new building is done. A little pseudorandomisation does imho not hurt; even more since buildings just a a certain chance of being build or not.

Offline TPIBAW

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Re: Purchased property compensation.
« Reply #10 on: June 02, 2009, 11:39:01 PM »
@ Colin: Hence the quotation marks. I also think that no one would bulldozer a house without giving a warning.

Why are there actually inner and outer counts needed? It's the same population.

Offline z9999

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Re: Purchased property compensation.
« Reply #11 on: June 03, 2009, 07:21:35 AM »
The outer count has a meaning, since it determines ultimately how many passenger are created.

I thought it depends not on outer count but on numbers of buildings. Am I wrong ?

Code: [Select]
step_interval = (1 << 21u) / (buildings.get_count() * welt->get_einstellungen()->get_passenger_factor() + 1);



Offline jamespetts gb

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Re: Purchased property compensation.
« Reply #12 on: June 03, 2009, 07:48:31 AM »
Hmm, in that case, that's very odd, since, if that were so, an enormous condominium would produce the same number of passengers as a tiny bungalow. Surely, that is not intended?

Offline z9999

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Re: Purchased property compensation.
« Reply #13 on: June 03, 2009, 08:24:35 AM »
Sorry for my poor explanation.

As I wrote, outer counter contains two parts.
Displayed population is calculated by sum of building and building levels and number of unemployed and homeless, (snip)
Passenger generation depends on sum of building and building levels, but it doesn't depend on number of unemployed and homeless.

Thus, it doesn't depend on outer count. Is this Okay ? Sorry for my bad English.

Offline Spike

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Re: Purchased property compensation.
« Reply #14 on: June 03, 2009, 10:20:06 AM »
Why are there actually inner and outer counts needed? It's the same population.

Inner count is not population. It is a city building AI control value. It often was mistaken for population, since as it raises the city building AI will build new buildings and markets, but it was not meant to mean population - it is more a kind of "city size" (which one can argue is closely related to population)

Early Simutrans version had only the inner count. It was displayed and often mistaken for "population". There were many discussions around it, because people took it as a number of inhabitants and figured it is wrong for the size of city that they see on screen - which is correct since it is not a count of inhabitants, but people instead claimed the value to be wrong, but it was only misunderstood.

I assume the ongoing problem to explain the nature of the inner count was a trigger not to show it anymore, but have a value that is more useful to players.

Offline prissi

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Re: Purchased property compensation.
« Reply #15 on: June 03, 2009, 08:57:46 PM »
In normal circumstances (i.e. all houses could be built, that have been intended to built) the error by homeless and unemployed people is less than 100.

Code: [Select]
step_interval = (1 << 21u) / (buildings.get_count() * welt->get_einstellungen()->get_passenger_factor() + 1);
only determines how often passengers are created. Their number actually depends on the building that is choosen as origin. Thus the generated number is closely related to the outer counter.

Offline TrainMith

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Re: Purchased property compensation.
« Reply #16 on: June 12, 2009, 07:47:24 AM »
Ah!  Thank you, both prissi and Hajo, for clearing that up.  Now I won't be so restrictive with the demolish tool!  I think I see a few city buildings and streets that need to be demolished for a better connection through one of the cities.   :o

Edit:  I recalled exactly where my concern for this issue was located:  The city properties dialog with the chart being set to illustrate city population growth shows a negative growth after deletion of a city square.  So, is this chart incorrectly showing the inner count's growth, instead of the outer?
« Last Edit: July 01, 2009, 07:26:14 AM by TrainMith »

Offline prissi

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Re: Purchased property compensation.
« Reply #17 on: July 01, 2009, 12:53:47 PM »
No, the inner count never decreases; the outer does, because when deleting a house no home/workless people are added.