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Author Topic: [Release 1.0] New Sand Quarry  (Read 14649 times)

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Offline dantedarkstar

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[Release 1.0] New Sand Quarry
« on: June 04, 2009, 01:09:57 AM »
This is the new, opensource Sand Quarry created for pak128. The author is me (Krzysztof Suchecki aka DanteDarkstar) and the quarry is released under Artistic License 2.0
http://www.opensource.org/licenses/artistic-license-2.0.php
(basically, you can distribute and modify it freely)

The current version is 1.0 (first full release).

How does it look like:


Downloads
This quarry is incorporated into pak128 since some nightly between 1.4.5 and 1.4.6. Downloading pak128 version 1.4.6+ assures you have reasonably up-to-date version so you don't need to download it as stand-alone.

If you want just to have it in game without downloading pak128 1.4.6+ (or it's not yet out and you don't want to dabble with nightlies), you can download the "pak" version. If you want to be able to fiddle with dat file then get the "src" version that contains dat and png files aside from pak. If you want to use it, or parts of it in your own project, you might want to get the "fullsrc" version, that contains also full GIMP xcf image of the quarry spread over overkill amount of 67 layers, allowing basically to pick only the parts you want and easy modification of one part without affecting the other.

Pak version: http://simutrans-germany.com/files/upload/sand_quarry_v1_0_pak.zip (for just the pak file)
Src version: http://simutrans-germany.com/files/upload/sand_quarry_v1_0_src.zip (for pak, dat and png files)
Full source version (1.5MB): http://simutrans-germany.com/files/upload/sand_quarry_v1_0_fullsrc.zip (for pak, dat, png and the source multi-layered file)

Enjoy !






================
[Original message:]

After confirming what new industry graphics is needed in pak128 I decided to go with something rather easy (or so I thought) for start: Sand Quarry.

It's far from finished, as only the ground is done (still not finished), while the rest (machines, buildings, etc.) are still to be done. Regardless, I post it in case somebody has remarks so far. All comments welcome.

What I have still to do:
>apply gradual change from "ground" to quarry sand on edges
>draw extraction machines
>add one or two quarry trucks as decoration
>put some buildings in (at least barracks)
>add some tracks to make it look like it's actually used
>create winter image by applying snow
> ? ? ?


(created using GIMP only)
« Last Edit: June 07, 2009, 12:13:57 PM by dantedarkstar »

Offline vilvoh

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Re: [WIP] New Sand Quarry
« Reply #1 on: June 04, 2009, 07:06:22 AM »
I like the texture but not the shape. I mean ,imho it seems a desert hole (sarlack) more than a sand quarry, although I really don't know how a sand quarry looks like, but as I've said seems too desertic to me..

P.D: The image seems to be from 3D model, doesn't it?

Offline The Hood

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Re: [WIP] New Sand Quarry
« Reply #2 on: June 04, 2009, 07:31:42 AM »
I think the quarry might look better with more depth to the hole?  Otherwise the texture is pretty cool!

Offline dantedarkstar

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Re: [WIP] New Sand Quarry
« Reply #3 on: June 04, 2009, 07:54:46 AM »
@Hood
I do realize it's now very "desertic" because it's 100% sand. I plan adding bits of transparency to get the underneath grass here and there, as well as gradual change on the edges.
And no, it's not 3d model. I just use the sand as "base" (made basically by adding noise to color and few tweaks to get some slightly darker irregular "stains" all over) and then in GIMP add Soft Light layers to "shape" the landscape.

Also, when I add some water in the bottom (puddles, dark water stains) I hope it will look more like a sand quarry than the desert.

@vilvoh
I don't know about the hole depth. I never seen sand quarry in real life myself (hehe), but I seen few surface mines. I just assume it looks similar, so you dig a pit and then extend it in breadth, and when you reach max, you dig another "level" of the pit and do it again. And since the edges are natural (no reinforcements) they can't be too steep which makes such places a lot wider than deeper.

It's 4x4 right now. Originally I started with 5x5, but after making the pit I decided I had a bit too much space to fill with something, and besides 5x5 would be really huge in game (especially that current sand quarry is just 3x3).


I hope to do some work on it today too.

Offline VS

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Re: [WIP] New Sand Quarry
« Reply #4 on: June 04, 2009, 08:20:20 AM »
Wow, good start! Remarks...

First, something to save you sorrow later - these industries are sometimes pretty old, as is the case of the sand pit. Since then climates got introduced, which means that there isn't one style of grass that would fit surface on every location. If you want to make it blend, better do it with transparent holes instead of grass. It should look better in eg. desert ;)

Second... if you don't have objections, could you please save a "in between" version without machinery? The idea is to have a 19th and 20th century version, one with steam equipment, one with diesel... It's not that you would have to do both, only convenient to start from later :)

PS: If you need any stuff to stack there (machinery), just ask. I might have something (or not :( )

Offline dantedarkstar

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Re: [WIP] New Sand Quarry
« Reply #5 on: June 04, 2009, 10:16:51 AM »
I intended "grassing" by transparency from the start.

As for "intermediate" versions, I tend to build it with lots of layers in GIMP. I have 23 layers right now (it's excessive but allows for easy tweaking of one part without affecting the other, I used 8 layers for single vehicle for easy Z-axis control).
So in other words it will be very simple to just disable the layers that are not wanted. I plan on contributing the original GIMP file with layers after finishing the work in addition to the normal png to be used in game, so that all the sources are available.

[Edit:] Update on the work. Added one work vehicle (didn't turn out too good), two barracks and one information table. Next on the agenda is fence around, gate (probably just raised barrier) and working vehicle garage.


« Last Edit: June 04, 2009, 11:25:45 AM by dantedarkstar »

Offline VS

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Re: [WIP] New Sand Quarry
« Reply #6 on: June 04, 2009, 12:03:34 PM »
Nice :) I think what's missing on vehicle is shadow and perhaps less black tires to look good... hmmm....

Offline vilvoh

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Re: [WIP] New Sand Quarry
« Reply #7 on: June 04, 2009, 12:06:29 PM »
Excellent work!!

Offline dantedarkstar

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Re: [WIP] New Sand Quarry
« Reply #8 on: June 04, 2009, 02:11:39 PM »
Hmm... you are right, I didn't any vehicle shadow. I will have to include that.

Here's the next version preview, with SIMULATED grass (the grassy areas are transparent in png for the game). I made most buildings etc. and found that there's not much place for other sand mining equipment. I will try to squeeze it somewhere, or we could just say it's very small sand quarry :)



Anyway, I removed building shadows for now, because most of ground near buildings is grassed, and I can't make shadow over the transparent area easily. I will try to solve that somehow (dithered shadows ?). Anyway, suggestions welcome !

Offline vilvoh

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Re: [WIP] New Sand Quarry
« Reply #9 on: June 04, 2009, 02:18:46 PM »
I would change the fence color to a brighter one (red or blue) In spite of that, the result is really good.

Offline The Hood

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Re: [WIP] New Sand Quarry
« Reply #10 on: June 04, 2009, 02:40:58 PM »
Also the digger looks big compared to the rest of the buildings / size of pit.  Other than that it is amazing!

Offline dantedarkstar

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Re: [WIP] New Sand Quarry
« Reply #11 on: June 04, 2009, 03:16:58 PM »
I realized the digger came out huge. But I'm considering keeping the size and just making it look like it's large. I'll add a hint of a ladder and probably decrease size of the driving cabin, so that it actually looks like a big thing, rather than not-to-scale. After all, if they have things like this: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Caterpillar_797B
then one-story high digger is a small fry :)
Besides it would myabe half-explain why the quarry can work with just one machine.

As for the fence, I agree. I will make it lighter, but keep it metallic/gray (maybe make it a bit rusty here and there). This industry isn't really shining new (just look at the barracks and the fence holes patched with "do not cross" tape). Nice, painted fence wouldn't suit it.

Anyway, right now I'm splitting the above version into tiles to see how it looks in game. Besides it's my first factory (and building too) so I have to learn how to do that efficiently and develop helper "tools" (like sectioned multilayer bitmap in GIMP, so that I can just "cut and paste").

Offline VS

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Re: [WIP] New Sand Quarry
« Reply #12 on: June 04, 2009, 03:25:15 PM »
I guess it's meant to be big.

I'll just join the choir - great :)

Offline IgorEliezer br

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Re: [WIP] New Sand Quarry
« Reply #13 on: June 04, 2009, 04:02:07 PM »
I'll just join the choir - great :)

Can I bandwagon?  ;D


Offline dantedarkstar

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Re: [WIP] New Sand Quarry
« Reply #14 on: June 04, 2009, 05:39:58 PM »
Well, I decided to first make it work, then go with improvements. Below are the screenies for the quarry in game:


I still didn't catch a single pixel on the long barrack that glows in the night when it shouldn't. Aside from that, there are quite some improvements I plan on doing.
The quarry looks bad on the desert. I used different sand coloring, because standard simutrans has very orange/coppery hue to it. I think we could agree to disallow the quarry on the desert on the grounds that desert sand is of wrong type. Besides the water pools look out of place under such conditions.

But anyway, the version 0.1 is up (and since it's open source, there is also link to sources):
http://simutrans-germany.com/files/upload/sand_quarry_pak.zip
http://simutrans-germany.com/files/upload/sand_quarry_src.zip
As I said I plan on uploading the GIMP xcf file with its all 50 layers, but I will do that when I get to version 1.0. For now it's just the png for the game and dat file (which probably needs quite some overhaul before being incorporated into pak128 because some values are assigned sort of "on fly" and in the game it turned out perhaps not so great).


And thank you for all the encouragement. It really helped (otherwise I would be probably halfway with the buildings).

Offline IgorEliezer br

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Re: [WIP, release 0.1] New Sand Quarry
« Reply #15 on: June 04, 2009, 08:28:31 PM »
<3 <3 <3

LOL

Okay, it's very good. What more have I say?

Offline VS

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Re: [WIP, release 0.1] New Sand Quarry
« Reply #16 on: June 05, 2009, 06:28:01 PM »
Well... no dessert then! It's a reasonable assumption that in the desert, one does not have to build an industry when a shovel is enough ;) I guess climates upwards of alpine look bad, too. But that's a non-issue as well.

I feel bad for writing here nowhere as much as in reply to Asterix's gas station, but, well, you're out of my league...

Offline dantedarkstar

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Re: [WIP, release 0.1] New Sand Quarry
« Reply #17 on: June 05, 2009, 06:50:01 PM »
I was thinking the quarry to be available for tropic, mediterranean and temperate climates. For desert it looks kinda out of place, for tundra and higher there wouldn't be any sand to dig, either because of permafrost (tundra as northern climate) or too rocky ground (if we assume it takes role of high-altitude climate).

And no worries about feedback. I have few ideas that I will implement: some pump system to get rid of the water accumulation at the bottom, some lights (other than windows) and probably make the entrance barrier in different position (looks a bit weird for me, not to mention the red lights are too dense on it). Also maybe will re-implement shadows if I manage to make sensible shadows that extend to grassy areas (if we agree to limit to tropic-temperate, then I could probably implement some internal grass as non-transparent and could shade it then. Of course external grass at the perimeter would remain transparent to seamlessly fit into the environment.
I'll probably play with it tomorrow (saturday).

Offline dantedarkstar

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Re: [WIP, release 0.2] New Sand Quarry
« Reply #18 on: June 06, 2009, 03:58:02 PM »
A new version (0.2). It's almost finished.
Download:
http://simutrans-germany.com/files/upload/sand_quarry_pak.zip
http://simutrans-germany.com/files/upload/sand_quarry_src.zip
Screenies:


The only issues are now:
>Are the lamps okay as they are now ?
>Is there something amiss or wrong ?
>DAT file

About the lamps: I tried to do some lamps that light up a little below them. I'm a bit concerned if they look okay. Especially at night. The one on the entrance to the long barrack just melds into the area it lights up. Perhaps this one should go away ? The second issue is: during the day you can still see the "light" of the lamp (albeit not so good, still the grass and sand are both too bright to completely conceal it during the day.

About the DAT file: I put some values there, but I don't know if they make sense. VS, could you check the dat file (it's in the source zip) to see if they make sense (and compare them to the current sand quarry). I would be grateful if you could tell me what parameters are wrong and what values should I put there. If I get the feedback about the DAT file and we agree the graphics is also okay for the "full" release, then I'll be making version 1.0, that will also include full layered GIMP picture (xcf) in the sources (or as additional, 3rd package, since the xcf is itself few megs).

Offline VS

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Re: [WIP, release 0.2] New Sand Quarry
« Reply #19 on: June 06, 2009, 06:01:51 PM »
I am sure that the big light is all right, it's just that you know where to look for what. I would consider it only another dark area of grime. The smaller light is somewhat hard to understand, I had to read what it is. It reminds me of these weird terminals from fps games which must be blown up to complete mission :)

The entries in DAT are:
Code: [Select]
DistributionWeight=1
Productivity=170
Range=80
pax_level=5

OutputGood[0]=Sand
OutputCapacity[0]=800

MapColor=9

I can't think of anything wrong.

Second... if you don't have objections, could you please save a "in between" version without machinery? The idea is to have a 19th and 20th century version, one with steam equipment, one with diesel... It's not that you would have to do both, only convenient to start from later :)
Ummm... now I feel like a beggar, but did you consider this? No pressure; simply say how you feel about that and that's it then. Since you have the layered source, it can be always added later by anyone...

Offline dantedarkstar

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Re: [WIP, release 0.2] New Sand Quarry
« Reply #20 on: June 06, 2009, 06:55:30 PM »
Quote
Ummm... now I feel like a beggar, but did you consider this? No pressure; simply say how you feel about that and that's it then. Since you have the layered source, it can be always added later by anyone...
Like I said, with version 1.0 comes full xcf GIMP file, so you can take out any layer you want. I think I'll also put into the pack separately few main "layers" (like "buildings", "vehicle", "terrain") for people who do not use GIMP and could not read xcf file (although it's a matter of installing GIMP, that's available at least for linux and windows).

Ok, so these are the stats form the original quarry dat file ? I'll patch the dat file, do something with the small light and probably release all this as 1.0. Unless something occurs to me that also had to be done, then I'll just do that and release 1.0.

Offline VS

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Re: [WIP, release 0.2] New Sand Quarry
« Reply #21 on: June 06, 2009, 07:14:14 PM »
Sounds good :)

Sand quarry, check.

Offline dantedarkstar

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Re: [WIP, release 0.2] New Sand Quarry
« Reply #22 on: June 06, 2009, 08:12:47 PM »
VS, just a small question. If I were to put all the information into the text file (like in pre-1.0), what license should I put there (what is the target license for pak128) ?
Aside from that, I'm releasing 1.0 as soon as you tell me this info :) All is set.

[Edit:]
Could you also tell me if this is going to be incorporated into next pak128 release ? I would like to include that info into the text file.
« Last Edit: June 06, 2009, 08:20:20 PM by dantedarkstar »

Offline VS

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Re: [WIP, release 0.2] New Sand Quarry
« Reply #23 on: June 06, 2009, 08:43:16 PM »
Target license for pak128 is Artistic License 2.0.

Yes, I will add it to the set once you declare a final version. It should be in the next nightly then. And I will deprecate the old one, too. First disable construction to keep backward compatibility at maximum, and once the 100% free version can go out, I'll move it to the compatibility pack.

Remember that releasing under this license does not take away from you (author) the option of releasing another "copy" under different terms. The only two things you can't do is a) change your mind once it's out there and b) transfer "all rights" to somebody else as you already gave control over the thing away.

Offline dantedarkstar

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Re: [WIP, release 0.2] New Sand Quarry
« Reply #24 on: June 06, 2009, 10:53:16 PM »
Ehm... I would have put up 1.0 already, if not for a snag. simutrans-germany/files despite saying straight that maximum file size is 20.0MBytes refuses my 3.6MB upload saying ERROR, file too large

Do you know what's up and if there's anything that can be done ?
The full sources came out large (3.6MB), because I crammed in gimp xcf file, export from gimp to photoshop psd file and also few layers in png format.
I would like to sort this out before releasing, since this impacts the text files I include in all the zip files.

Offline VS

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Re: [WIP, release 0.2] New Sand Quarry
« Reply #25 on: June 07, 2009, 10:23:18 AM »
Well, you should try removing the redundant data. If everything can be generated from the xcf, it might be better to distribute just that. Remember that PNG is already compressed so you can't get around its size by putting it into a zip. No idea about PSD.

If you want to keep all the pieces, there are a few tricks.

First, try using some better archive format. ZIP is universal but poor. Try RAR, 7Z, BZ2 and so on, all at highest setting. I recommend PeaZip since it can actually create all of these formats. Even if you won't want to use it for daily handling of data, it's handy to have around.

Second, GIMP does not compress exports well. You can re-compress the PNGs with some optimizer and shave off some kB. Try optipng, pngcrush and pngout, in order of preference. First is blazing fast, last is worse than a snail. All of them operate from command line.

Offline dantedarkstar

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Re: [Release 1.0] New Sand Quarry
« Reply #26 on: June 07, 2009, 12:20:57 PM »
Okay. I kept just the xcf file and simutrans-germany took the 1.5MB. Maybe there's a typo and the limit is not 20.0MB, but 2.00MB ? 1.5MB okay, 3.6MB too large...

Anwyay, the release 1.0 is up ! Check the first post for links.


Further plans:
When I get back to the sand quarry, I thought of maybe making it somewhat animated to make it look more "busy". I was considering some simple digging animation and people moving around. Maybe the lamp going out and back on in intervals, like some lanterns tend to do.
But I won't be doing that soon. The version 1.0 is up anyway, so it can be put into the pak128, so the rest is just for fluff. Maybe I'll do different industry rather than adding such flashy stuff to this one. Will see.

Offline VS

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Re: [Release 1.0] New Sand Quarry
« Reply #27 on: June 07, 2009, 08:12:12 PM »
I'm sorry, my computer kinda died and I am still copying files somewhere safe before I begin trying to fix it... I'll see what I can do, but don't expect any miracles.

Offline Frank

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Re: [Release 1.0] New Sand Quarry
« Reply #28 on: June 07, 2009, 08:24:17 PM »
Okay. I kept just the xcf file and simutrans-germany took the 1.5MB. Maybe there's a typo and the limit is not 20.0MB, but 2.00MB ? 1.5MB okay, 3.6MB too large...

...

sorry, bug in config

Offline gauthier

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Re: [Release 1.0] New Sand Quarry
« Reply #29 on: June 07, 2009, 08:36:38 PM »
Very nice, looking forward to use that ;)

Offline Zeno

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Re: [Release 1.0] New Sand Quarry
« Reply #30 on: June 07, 2009, 10:13:41 PM »
Oh, I really love it!
It's so nice to see new industries being drawn...  ::)

Offline VS

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Re: [Release 1.0] New Sand Quarry
« Reply #31 on: June 08, 2009, 02:14:10 PM »
I managed to retreat and regroup on another computer :) Will be in next nightly - iirc on friday evening.

Offline wernieman

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Re: [Release 1.0] New Sand Quarry
« Reply #32 on: June 08, 2009, 02:50:25 PM »
Or make a big change and cry ;o)