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Author Topic: New to Brit128 and I figure one cant win?  (Read 4846 times)

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Offline yoda42

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New to Brit128 and I figure one cant win?
« on: August 09, 2009, 06:52:43 PM »
Hi All

I am a relative newbie to Simutrans. I have been playing with Simutrans Experimental and thought I would give PAK 128Britain a try as it seems likely to be the first most SE ready pack.

I have 128Britain v103 and SE 6.2 starting in 1930. I have updated the speedbonus file according to James Petts suggestions from earlier this week.

I normally start a passenger centric game, but thought it would be useful to try a freight game for once.  Being Britain one started moving coal from a colliery to a power station.

Observations:
1 - I notice that there are no trucks available to transport freight - just buses. 
2 - I started with a train route using the cheapest train possible (a Jinty)(coal has a 0% influence on speed bonus) and created trains with 13 Bulk wagons.  To minimise my infrastructure costs I have 7 trains running on a common line to 2 collieries. I used up my entire capital to get this started and cannot show any profit.

Can this be right ? Have I done something wrong with my installation?  Am I designing my network so poorly that it is running efficiently ?

I'll make my savegame available if anyone is interested.

Yoda

Offline jamespetts gb

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Re: New to Brit128 and I figure one cant win?
« Reply #1 on: August 09, 2009, 07:15:22 PM »
Yoda,

thank you very much for your feedback. Both Simutrans-Experimental and Pak128.Britain are work in progress, so there may well be balancing issues that we need to resolve - and it is only through feedback like yours that we can resolve them :-) Two things that you should note, however: (1) the Pak128.Britain that is currently available is not the Experimental version of this pakset. The Experimental version is still work in progress, and only the sources are available so far; and (2) Simutrans-Experimental 6.2 is no longer the current version: I suggest that you update to Simutrans-Experimental 6.3.

I should indeed very much like to see your saved game so that I can try to work out any balancing issues - could you upload it somewhere? Thank you very much for your feedback :-)

Offline Maragil

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Re: New to Brit128 and I figure one cant win?
« Reply #2 on: August 09, 2009, 07:36:48 PM »

Observations:
1 - I notice that there are no trucks available to transport freight - just buses. 
2 - I started with a train route using the cheapest train possible (a Jinty)(coal has a 0% influence on speed bonus) and created trains with 13 Bulk wagons.  To minimise my infrastructure costs I have 7 trains running on a common line to 2 collieries. I used up my entire capital to get this started and cannot show any profit.

Can this be right ? Have I done something wrong with my installation?  Am I designing my network so poorly that it is running efficiently ?

I'll make my savegame available if anyone is interested.

Yoda

1- As James said earlier, trucks are still in the Production line, and not done yet - a possibility that one could use is copy/paste your .pak files of truck from 128.

2- Are you using chronology?

Re Simutrans Experimental read here for more info: http://en.wiki.simutrans.com/index.php/Simutrans_Experimental

Offline yoda42

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Re: New to Brit128 and I figure one cant win?
« Reply #3 on: August 09, 2009, 08:24:11 PM »
Hi there James, Maragil

Thanks for the incredibly quick responses!

I had not realised that not much had been done on the trucks for this pak - apologies.  I know that the pack is not yet SE compliant, but from the SE topics it appears that it will be the first one to be ready, so I was keen to familiarise myself with it.

I had not realised that 6.3 was out - when I start playing on Friday I thought I was up to date - seems I should have checked the site this morning again! 

Maragil, yes I am using chronology set to on.

I have uploaded the savegame to http://yoda42.com/yoda/side-bar/random-files/doc_download/2-coalton

Check the northeast corner of the map.  I even created an additional powerstation to ensure that I had demand.

Thanks for your hardwork and dedication.

Yoda


Offline Maragil

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Re: New to Brit128 and I figure one cant win?
« Reply #4 on: August 09, 2009, 08:51:22 PM »
For your information by the way, simutrans files can be hosted and downloaded at http://simutrans-germany.com/files/.

Simply enter your Forum Username+password, and then you can upload your files - it's also possible to download others.

Are you using Simutrans Experimental in that game?

Offline jamespetts gb

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Re: New to Brit128 and I figure one cant win?
« Reply #5 on: August 09, 2009, 08:57:25 PM »
Yoda,

thank you for uploading that. I have had a brief look at the map, and I have a few thoughts. First of all, it is a rather inefficient layout. Using large numbers of those small locomotives is not helping your efficiency - you might have been better off using the LMS 4F class and having longer trains. Secondly, the way that you have things organised, things are hardly ever moving because of a bottleneck at the junction between the two coal mines and the track to the power station. You need to make enough deliveries of coal a month to overcome your infrastructure maintenance, which you are not doing at present. Your trains are profitable in themselves, but because of the inefficiency of your network, that is not enough to overcome your fixed costs.

Incidentally, how much was your starting capital? I'd recommend a starting capital of at least $500,000 for Simutrans-Experimental. Also, be aware that, in Pak128.Britain, the difficulty increases in later years. Starting in 1930 is rather late - currently, the pakset is playable from 1830 onwards, and the aim is for it to be playable from 1750 onwards (we are still waiting for canal barges for that, though). The earlier that you start the lower that the speed bonus is and the cheaper that the vehicles and ways are. Starting in the 20th century is always going to be difficult, as you will have to expend a lot of capital to get a profitable network - far more so than the 19th century.

As to the releases of Simutrans-Experimental - there is usually a new version every Saturday with bug fixes and other minor enhancements. I'd recommend checking the Simutrans-Experimental forum every week-end for updates.

Lorries/trucks are in progress - I have researched all the pre-war vehicles; we are just waiting for James Hood to return from his summer holiday and start drawing them ;-) They are the next priority, I think. In the meantime, I am working on Pak128.Britain-Experimental (I have been adding comfort ratings and loading times for 'buses, trolleybuses and trams to-day). Incidentally, if you are interested in contributing to Pak128.Britain (whether or not the Experimental version), you would be very welcome to do so - anything from drawing graphics (they're quite simple, so no great artistic skill is required) to researching vehicles to tinkering with the balancing would be useful. It's not compulsory, and you don't have to do it if you don't want to, but even a small contribution would be very much welcomed if you have the time and the inclination :-)

Offline The Hood

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Re: New to Brit128 and I figure one cant win?
« Reply #6 on: August 12, 2009, 11:21:45 AM »
Yoda,

to answer your concerns in the first post:

1) No trucks yet - I will start these when I next get time to draw stuff, hopefully in a few weeks time.
2) I should re-state that neither pak128.Britain or Sim-experimental are properly balanced as yet.  If you can't get a profit for something sensible using sim-standard and pak128.Britain I would like to know the details though so I can investigate and fix.

Offline jamespetts gb

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Re: New to Brit128 and I figure one cant win?
« Reply #7 on: August 12, 2009, 12:04:48 PM »
If you can't get a profit for something sensible using sim-standard and pak128.Britain I would like to know the details though so I can investigate and fix.

And I should similarly like to know in relation to Simutrans-Experimental ;-)

Offline yoda42

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Re: New to Brit128 and I figure one cant win?
« Reply #8 on: August 12, 2009, 12:07:16 PM »
Hi James

Thanks for your assessment.  Clearly I have a lot more to learn about playing Simutrans smartly.

I'd be very happy to contribute to pak128.Britain (experimental included) in any way I can.  My artistic ability is apalling but if you say it is easy, I am willing to give it a bash.  I'd be more interested in looking at the balancing aspects, but I suspect that will take a lot more time to become familiar with.

Thanks for your feedback, Hood.  My comments above apply.

Yoda

Offline The Hood

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Re: New to Brit128 and I figure one cant win?
« Reply #9 on: August 12, 2009, 12:17:33 PM »
You are welcome to try at either - let me know or start a thread if you want any help with anything.

Offline jamespetts gb

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Re: New to Brit128 and I figure one cant win?
« Reply #10 on: August 12, 2009, 12:35:55 PM »
Yoda,

thank you very much for your offer. See this thread to see what needs to be done for Pak128.Britain-Experimental. If any outstanding task there catches your fancy, please let me know, and I can help you with getting started.