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Author Topic: Stop names based on Street  (Read 6416 times)

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Icaticus

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Stop names based on Street
« on: August 10, 2009, 08:12:02 AM »
An addition of street names would allow for better organization. You could identify streets based on continuity in the program and make stops autonaming parameters based on the street names. Things like "Broadway Ave West, Broadway Ave Main, Broadway Ave East, Broadway Ave Downtown" or similar. This not only allows for better organization but also allows for simplistic methods of route and line naming such as "Broadway Line" meaning it goes along Broadway or Broadway/Oakdale Loop meaning it loops up broadway over to oakdale then down oakdale and back to broadway. Not sure if it would have any other benefits in game but that alone would make it worth while.

Offline Zeno

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Re: Stop names based on Street
« Reply #1 on: August 10, 2009, 09:22:28 AM »
There is not such a "street object" in simutrans, and I doubt no one will want to create it only to identify stop names.

Anyway, I think many players would like a street naming rule like that...  ::)

Offline jamespetts gb

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Re: Stop names based on Street
« Reply #2 on: August 10, 2009, 10:01:01 AM »
It's a lovely idea (and would make stop naming a lot more interesting), but I suspect that the amount of coding work involved in creating it would outweigh the advantages: it would take quite a lot of work to create an entire new simulation layer to individuate specific streets and then assign them names. Of course, stops can always be re-named by players - there's nothing to stop you from inventing your own street-based stop names :-)

Offline Amelek

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Re: Stop names based on Street
« Reply #3 on: August 10, 2009, 10:41:04 AM »
I think this can be done pretty easily by altering city builder. Obviously, road names make sense only in cities: then, citybuilder can be expanded to do:

1) when spawning new road / taking over players one: if directly connected road to this one ends in title to which we connect (it will mean that we expand old road) then use that's road name
2) otherwise: if you spawn new road without connection or expand with crossing: make new name.

this will create odd namesystem perhaps, but should work on some degree.

Offline Fabio

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Re: Stop names based on Street
« Reply #4 on: August 10, 2009, 02:43:45 PM »
in my opinion a street could extend for many blocks, regardless of crossing with other streets.
i would think of a system based on RIBIs, with the name stored in tile object (crossings having the name of both streets)

Offline prissi

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Re: Stop names based on Street
« Reply #5 on: August 10, 2009, 02:55:29 PM »
And then there are countries without street names at all, for instance Japan ...

Icaticus

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Re: Stop names based on Street
« Reply #6 on: August 11, 2009, 02:14:29 AM »
And then there are countries without street names at all, for instance Japan ...

Well you could make it so it turns on and off. Or make a mechanism as simple as a player sign mechanism that has a beginning and an end point to allow for naming ways (would probably have to allow for dragging like roads do so you could be sure it wasnt taking alternate paths). It wouldnt be Auto-naming but it would be a start.

The algorithm for auto-naming would probably work easiest as a *if road is continuous (meaning it does not jog) AND has same positioning (horizontal or vertical: I know its more of an X but this is simplistic for explanation) than naming continues same as previous. If connection is crossing than naming will be X and Y with X being the north to south road and Y being east to west, example Gardenia Drive and 1st Street.

So out of curiosity, if they don't have names how do they identify the street your on as opposed to one a block away? There has to be some sort of identifier that would work in place of the naming/numbering mechanism the majority of the urban world utilize.

Offline Fabio

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Re: Stop names based on Street
« Reply #7 on: August 11, 2009, 08:22:50 AM »
The algorithm for auto-naming would probably work easiest as a *if road is continuous (meaning it does not jog) AND has same positioning (horizontal or vertical: I know its more of an X but this is simplistic for explanation) than naming continues same as previous. If connection is crossing than naming will be X and Y with X being the north to south road and Y being east to west, example Gardenia Drive and 1st Street.

pretty much as i thought. and stops should be named after the road they're on AND the closest perpendicular one.


So out of curiosity, if they don't have names how do they identify the street your on as opposed to one a block away? There has to be some sort of identifier that would work in place of the naming/numbering mechanism the majority of the urban world utilize.

or how do you give your address to a cab? or write on the address if you need to send mail?

Offline prissi

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Re: Stop names based on Street
« Reply #8 on: August 11, 2009, 01:32:47 PM »
Well, at least you could paste names already in the GDI version, so it would be no problem just copy and paste them from a list.

And a japan adress is usually, town name, district name, block numer, house number (the latter pretty random, oldest house had a 1). For instance Yokohama, Aobadai 7-129 Aparment 1-3-101 and then there is the postcode, which also nearly give the block number, for above example i think it was 2276629 or so.

Offline AP

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Re: Stop names based on Street
« Reply #9 on: August 11, 2009, 05:43:22 PM »
In england, in most towns and cities the primary arterial roads are simply named after the place they go to - so in London, you have Oxford Street, and in Oxford, you have London Road. Perhaps the naming mechanism, when it connects cities, could take this into account also. Just a thought.

Offline jamespetts gb

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Re: Stop names based on Street
« Reply #10 on: August 11, 2009, 07:42:30 PM »
Actually, the street names in England are rather more heterogenous than that, although that is a good place to start as naming roads by destination is common. "High Street" is a common name for the main road through the centre of town (although, in Oxford, the "High Street" is no longer the main shopping area, and a street called "Cornmarket Street" is, instead; that, of course, is named by reference to a local public building). Other common road names are based on local landmarks; "Bridge Street" is common, for example. Names ending in "Road" are usually named after the town to which they lead, whilst those ending in "Street" or "Lane" are more commonly named after some local point of interest, or sometimes, a notable person ("King William Street", for example, was the name of one of the earliest stations on the London Underground).

Offline AP

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Re: Stop names based on Street
« Reply #11 on: August 11, 2009, 08:25:40 PM »
True enough, but settlements evolve from the small to the large - if you look at most villages, it is a combination of geographic road names (describing the destinations), and, as you say, smaller roads going to or past key buildings and named accordingly (church street etc), and not much else. High street or Market Street are just the central bit of road that links it all together, normally.

The more interesting street names come later, as the places grow and history causes each new road to acquire a name. It's quite an organic process, and I'm sure could be simulated if someone were so inclined.

Offline VS

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Re: Stop names based on Street
« Reply #12 on: August 18, 2009, 03:08:22 PM »
Another difficulty is that on lines inside city, stops are probably not named after the street along which the vehicle moves, but rather these crossing it... at least here it is so.

Offline hApo

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Re: Stop names based on Street
« Reply #13 on: August 18, 2009, 07:24:14 PM »
I sometimes name stop by myself and giving them names of streets. I also think that naming streets would give SImutrans a new spirit. And what about naming the roads, highways, railways etc. outside the city? Like A113, I/12... Also the messages could change like "The train on the track nr. 213 near Liverpool ..."

Offline Fabio

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Re: Stop names based on Street
« Reply #14 on: August 18, 2009, 09:58:13 PM »
Another difficulty is that on lines inside city, stops are probably not named after the street along which the vehicle moves, but rather these crossing it... at least here it is so.
as i said, once the streets have names, multiple templates could be possible: "%street_name% stop", "%street_name% and %nearest_crossing% stop", etc...

Offline mwoodburn81

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Re: Stop names based on Street
« Reply #15 on: August 19, 2009, 02:30:10 AM »
Perhaps you could fake street names by assigning names to rows in cols of the tiles within a city.   Obviously, if a street jogs, it is going have a different name, but I would think it would be easier to program than figuring out what street is what.

Offline Isaac.Eiland-Hall us

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Re: Stop names based on Street
« Reply #16 on: August 19, 2009, 04:47:55 AM »
Each tile would belong to two streets...

hmm...

it's probably a more practical solution than writing code to try and derive streets from the chaos of road tiles, though...

Offline Fabio

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Re: Stop names based on Street
« Reply #17 on: August 19, 2009, 07:27:55 AM »
this sounds a *great* idea! also with my cityrules, streets jog much less than they used to be. and each stop would belong to two streets, which could allow stops to have easily a "%street_name% and %nearest_crossing% stop" name.

Offline The Hood

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Re: Stop names based on Street
« Reply #18 on: August 19, 2009, 07:40:09 AM »
In Britain even straight roads change their name very often anyway, so definitely not a problem!

Offline Dwachs

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Re: Stop names based on Street
« Reply #19 on: August 19, 2009, 08:13:40 AM »
Keeping track of street names while cities grow and players lay roads sounds difficult to implement.

A much more simpler solution would be to take the stop names from a given (language specific) database. Of course, street names would be included there, which would give the impression that there is a layer of street names below.

In addition, rules or names for special situation could be provided:
  • south/north of city centre
  • center/outskirt
  • near stations/airports (in Germany there are many roads name 'Bahnhofsstrasse' etc)
  • near monuments (i.e. Hajo square) or curiosities
  • etc...

Offline prissi

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Re: Stop names based on Street
« Reply #20 on: August 24, 2009, 03:00:29 PM »
There are already such names: If a special building is there, its name will be taken (if it is unique). Same goes for north west, inner city and outskirts. However, so far the tranaslators were not too creative in most languages ...