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Author Topic: Strange Profit and Loss figures by certain trains.  (Read 5127 times)

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Offline Colin

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Strange Profit and Loss figures by certain trains.
« on: September 05, 2009, 11:32:34 AM »
I've posted a new SVE on http://simutrans-germany.com/files/upload/Colin's%20Standard%202611%20Save%20No%202.sve. showing the strange P&L behaviour of a certain train.
Train travels A-B-A.
From A to B
journey 1. 3078 passengers, loss on arrival at B -$41k plus.
Journey 2. 3078 passengers, loss on arrival at B -$42k plus.
Journey 3. 3078 passengers, loss on arrival at B -$43k plus.
From B to A
journey 1. 325 Passengers, profit on arrival at A $22k plus.
Journey 2. 476 Passengers, profit on arrival at A $16k plus.
Journey 3. 124 passengers, profit on arrival at A $4k plus.

This doesn't make sense and it doesn't matter if I set the pay_for_total_distance to 0, 1, or 2. I realise that these settings may not affect a current SVE game. But it doesn't detract from the nonsensical profit and loss that is being generated.

Copied from previous post under another topic. as per whoami
« Last Edit: September 05, 2009, 12:00:00 PM by Colin »

Offline whoami

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Re: Strange Profit and Loss figures by certain trains.
« Reply #1 on: September 05, 2009, 10:41:36 PM »
(This is the continuation thread for the revenue issue from http://forum.simutrans.com/index.php?topic=3166.msg31193#msg31193.)

(I assume that you don't refer to ST-experimental.)
pay_for_total_distance = 2 can lead to such a result.
Also, cost deduction at switching of the month might be involved.

(I still need to try the savegame...)

Offline Colin

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Re: Strange Profit and Loss figures by certain trains.
« Reply #2 on: September 07, 2009, 08:28:58 PM »

(I still need to try the savegame...)


Hi whoami,

Have you tried the SVE yet?

Offline whoami

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Re: Strange Profit and Loss figures by certain trains.
« Reply #3 on: September 09, 2009, 11:28:47 AM »
Now I have tried. You refer to convoy 535 (line 71), right?

"pay_for_total_distance = 2" (I don't know how to check whether it's enabled in the savegame - I don't have a compiler/debugger here - but the setting can't be changed any more) is most likely the cause for negative revenue: if passengers/etc. are moved away from their final destination, you will get negative revenue for them, which will be compensated for (that is, refunded) on the further trip to the destination.

The train connects a single city (already near a corner of the map) to the network, moving them further to the nearest edge of the network, therefore further into the same corner of the map. But the passengers want to go, by average(!), to the center of the map, so they are moved away from their average destination, and the negative fare for this is deducted for this train.

Offline Colin

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Re: Strange Profit and Loss figures by certain trains.
« Reply #4 on: September 10, 2009, 05:15:04 AM »
Now I have tried. You refer to convoy 535 (line 71), right?

"pay_for_total_distance = 2" (I don't know how to check whether it's enabled in the savegame - I don't have a compiler/debugger here - but the setting can't be changed any more) is most likely the cause for negative revenue: if passengers/etc. are moved away from their final destination, you will get negative revenue for them, which will be compensated for (that is, refunded) on the further trip to the destination.

The train connects a single city (already near a corner of the map) to the network, moving them further to the nearest edge of the network, therefore further into the same corner of the map. But the passengers want to go, by average(!), to the center of the map, so they are moved away from their average destination, and the negative fare for this is deducted for this train.


So as I understand it, any passenger train moving towards the edge of the map loses money?

Offline whoami

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Re: Strange Profit and Loss figures by certain trains.
« Reply #5 on: September 10, 2009, 12:20:07 PM »
So as I understand it, any passenger train moving towards the edge of the map loses money?
Most often, yes, because passengers have to take that detour even though it's undesirable for them (and still the route is chosen by transfer count only, no other criteria). The train seems to lose money, but the loss is regained by the other trains. To see whether a convoy is useful, you may want to look only at its utilization figures (maximum and average).

As long as your network provides mostly routes with only little detours, cases like these are OK. So, for this setting, it may be useful to build a grid network of many direct train lines, instead of a huge backdone/ring with feeder lines.

You might choose to offer more direct connections by ship, though, or use trains over bridges (because the running costs of convoys are the most important ones, and these are calculated by tiles travelled).

Offline Colin

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Re: Strange Profit and Loss figures by certain trains.
« Reply #6 on: September 10, 2009, 10:01:38 PM »
Most often, yes, because passengers have to take that detour even though it's undesirable for them (and still the route is chosen by transfer count only, no other criteria). The train seems to lose money, but the loss is regained by the other trains. To see whether a convoy is useful, you may want to look only at its utilization figures (maximum and average).

As long as your network provides mostly routes with only little detours, cases like these are OK. So, for this setting, it may be useful to build a grid network of many direct train lines, instead of a huge backdone/ring with feeder lines.

You might choose to offer more direct connections by ship, though, or use trains over bridges (because the running costs of convoys are the most important ones, and these are calculated by tiles travelled).


Thanks whoami,
I'll spend some time rearranging my transport system. I don't think it will help to regain lost revenue in this game, but if it starts to decrease the loss then I'll be prepared for the next one.

Offline Colin

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Re: Strange Profit and Loss figures by certain trains.
« Reply #7 on: September 13, 2009, 02:54:47 AM »
Additional Info:

I've just realised that the game is now taking  3days 5hrs (Game Time) to run the "Welcome to Simutrans". Surely this must mean that there is something inherently wrong with the code?

Offline prissi

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Re: Strange Profit and Loss figures by certain trains.
« Reply #8 on: September 13, 2009, 08:04:58 AM »
You mean the scrolling down there? That depends extremly on your bits per month setting ...

Offline Colin

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Re: Strange Profit and Loss figures by certain trains.
« Reply #9 on: September 13, 2009, 10:07:11 AM »
You mean the scrolling down there? That depends extremly on your bits per month setting ...

Yes that's what I meant and my bits per month are set on the default. 20bpm.

Welcome back, I heard you had to shoot off again straight after your 'vacation'?

Offline prissi

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Re: Strange Profit and Loss figures by certain trains.
« Reply #10 on: September 13, 2009, 07:55:23 PM »
No still on this netbook (the smallest eeePC with 600MHz, 4GB hardisk and 800*480px screen ... ) Compiling tkes about 45 minutes. Oktober I will be more reliable update stuff and hopefully get 103 ready for release. It is due.