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Author Topic: pax and mail addons to boats  (Read 4063 times)

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Offline sanna

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pax and mail addons to boats
« on: May 25, 2010, 01:49:48 PM »
There are some "add-on pax and mail" vehicles in pak128.Britain that currently have no image whatsoever:

BlackwallFrigateAddPax
BlackwallFrigateAddMail
ClipperAddPax
ClipperAddMail
BlackwallFrigateAddPax
EastIndiamanAddMail

I _really_ think they should have some sort of visual feedback...

They are also not included in en.tab, and therefore have no translation/user friendly text.

Offline The Hood

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Re: pax and mail addons to boats
« Reply #1 on: May 25, 2010, 01:55:01 PM »
There is no image as these always get built automatically after the "main" boat.  There is no other way of getting more than one cargo into a single vehicle except artificially making it into separate vehicles.  Visually, though, it should be a single boat, so no image for the "add-on" "vehicles".  It is straightforward to add translations for these, although seeing as they never get clicked on in the depot as they are constrained to the main vehicle, it doesn't add too much to include translations.

Offline VS

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Re: pax and mail addons to boats
« Reply #2 on: May 25, 2010, 03:50:46 PM »
They could be an icon...

Offline AP

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Re: pax and mail addons to boats
« Reply #3 on: May 30, 2010, 04:37:22 PM »
{Feel free to split this to a separate thread if appropriate}

Is it possible to make a ship purchase the add-ons automatically? Like how an EMU purchases the middle and end cars all on the first click, they are compulsory.

I ask because, a while back, I bemoaned the lack of a general "ferry", that would transport whatever it was given, and I wonder if this could be a solution. I hadn't even realised the add-ons existed.

Could a ship be created that could thereby move 50pass+50mail+50bulk+50planks+etc, and so emulate cross-river rail ferries, and car-ferries too for that matter?

Offline jamespetts gb

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Re: pax and mail addons to boats
« Reply #4 on: May 30, 2010, 05:51:08 PM »
It couldn't simulate car ferries, as it could only move cars as a cargo, and not interface with the private car transportation system (which only exists in Experimental in any event).

Offline sdog

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Re: pax and mail addons to boats
« Reply #5 on: May 30, 2010, 09:17:26 PM »
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Could a ship be created that could thereby move 50pass+50mail+50bulk+50planks+etc, and so emulate cross-river rail ferries, and car-ferries too for that matter?
i would interpret this as the desire as a workaround to simulate car-ferries that transport lorry that loaded those goods.

Offline jamespetts gb

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Re: pax and mail addons to boats
« Reply #6 on: May 30, 2010, 10:00:22 PM »
The concept of a car ferry in transportational terms is worlds apart from a cargo ship transporting cars.

Offline AP

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Re: pax and mail addons to boats
« Reply #7 on: June 06, 2010, 11:00:37 AM »
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i would interpret this as the desire as a workaround to simulate car-ferries that transport lorry that loaded those goods.
Yes!

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The concept of a car ferry in transportational terms is worlds apart from a cargo ship transporting cars.

I didn't mean physically moving the city-cars or the lorries, I means as in lorry arrives one side, it's freight is "ferried across river", another lorry drives up to the other side to collect it. No bridge required. And without the need for a whole fleet of ferries, one for each possible type of good which might need to cross the river.

In the Victorian period, many well known uk river crossings (Severn, Humber, Tay) had railway-owned ferries linking pier stations, for years before anyone got around to building a much-more-expensive bridge or submarine tunnel. For wider stretches of water, and for 'young' companies, bridges are a serious undertaking. More recent examples are the English Channel and the waters around Denmark, or on a smaller scale, almost any island you care to choose.

Offline The Hood

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Re: pax and mail addons to boats
« Reply #8 on: June 06, 2010, 11:14:31 AM »
AP,

The problem with your proposal (which is good for the reasons you have given) is that it if you allow 50 of every type of good on the boat to give "transport anything" characteristics, it allows you to transport 50 of everything at the same time, i.e. transport 50 wood, 50 coal, 50 crates, 50 livestock etc.  The idea would be better if it could transport only a maximum of 50 "anything", e.g. 32 wood, 7 coal, 3 crates and 8 livestock = 50 total and no more.  Having it as you suggest would cause a few balancing problems (think of the difference in profit between carrying 50 of one goods type only and 50 of everything at the same running cost).

Given in simutrans you generally set up specific routes, I think it is better to have dedicated boats for each cargo type, although it would be at least possible to have a system where you bought the boat as a "locomotive" and could "fit" it with up to 3 different cargo types to your specifications.  The only problem to consider then would be how to represent these graphically (probably best with some form of icon for each goods category), and it's also worth noting that under this system different freight images for each cargo type could not be implemented. 

Any opinions on these proposals?

Offline AP

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Re: pax and mail addons to boats
« Reply #9 on: June 06, 2010, 12:38:03 PM »
Damnation, I forgot the balancing thing. You're right. Oh well!

Offline AP

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Re: pax and mail addons to boats
« Reply #10 on: June 07, 2010, 10:43:26 PM »
Sorry for doublepost... but it's been 24h ...

it would be at least possible to have a system where you bought the boat as a "locomotive" and could "fit" it with up to 3 different cargo types to your specifications.  

I think this is very much worth exploring, because the demand is there, and it would balance, it's just like re-fitting the ship's 3 holds to suit the demand.

It could be that there are different sizes of ferry, say 25, 50, 75, 100 (larger ones later?), and cargo holds in multiples of 25. Say. So small cheap ferries carry 2, large expensive ones 4. To give some variety etc. There is even (!) scope to standardise this, across all ships, if the coding could be done - buy ship (clipper, 1750, carries 0 cargo, say) then decide what it carries (passengers, coal, coal e.g.)

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The only problem to consider then would be how to represent these graphically (probably best with some form of icon for each goods category),
Surely just an icon in the depot does the job,  each virtual "ship-trailer" having a different icon according to type?? Or is that insufficient in terms of feedback.

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under this system different freight images for each cargo type could not be implemented.
- I don't follow this part, is that not what the above "graphic representation" is doing? If not in the depot, where else did you have in mind, what would that be for?
« Last Edit: June 07, 2010, 10:47:14 PM by AP »

Offline The Hood

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Re: pax and mail addons to boats
« Reply #11 on: June 08, 2010, 08:11:07 AM »
A couple of points to note:

1) Maximum number of "vehicles" in ship convoy are 4, i.e. "loco" ship + 3 "cargo holds".  This is a program restriction rather than a pakset one.  This limits the amount of different cargos that can be carried.
2) There is no sensible way that I know of using the current constraints system to limit a convoy to say, 2 trailers of any choice.
3) By freight images I meant different graphics to depict the boat as full of wood rather than full of coal or rather than being empty.  With the icon system, you don't get to see the a full boat of coal, but a generic boat image followed by a coal symbol.

Either way, AP, I'll take your post as a general support for this idea.

Interested to see what other people think (especially those that use ships in this pak or other paks).

Offline AP

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Re: pax and mail addons to boats
« Reply #12 on: June 10, 2010, 10:54:10 PM »
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Either way, AP, I'll take your post as a general support for this idea.

I do, and you may!  ;D