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Author Topic: Disable X crossing  (Read 3799 times)

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Offline Fabio

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Disable X crossing
« on: July 16, 2010, 01:12:45 PM »
For highways (or high speed rail) it could be useful to disable individual-pak-wise X crossing (forcing to use T crossing) or, eventually, climbing slopes, or even bends.
For this, i propose that if the dat is e.g.
Image[NSEW]=-
the player is forbidden to build such crossing, etc...
is it doable?

Offline Václav

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Re: Disable X crossing
« Reply #1 on: July 16, 2010, 01:39:39 PM »
Fabio, very interesting idea but: could you explain me why? Sometimes full crossing is needed. And if you don't believe me or you would like to bring proof it is not needed, so please visit this my post, download both files (pak128 dir is needed due to some add-ons I use - mainly vehicles by TommPa9 and Sim) and rebuild tracks around city called Zlešice (mainly to the east of this city) without using full crossings.

PS: please, don't be angry with me for what is written above.

Offline Lmallet

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Re: Disable X crossing
« Reply #2 on: July 16, 2010, 01:49:42 PM »
I have the same concern as Vaclav.   Not everyone uses highways to build controlled-access highways.  Some of us just want faster ways.  Also in a usability perspective, it could be difficult to explain to new users that some roads can have X intersections, while others can only have T intersections.

That being said, I recognize the problem you are trying to tackle...  I am sure everyone has had the experience of building an X when they wanted to build a T.   All I can think of is pressing down Shift, Alt or Ctrl while building would prevent it, but I don't know if that is doable.
« Last Edit: July 16, 2010, 01:54:16 PM by Lmallet »

Offline Isaac.Eiland-Hall us

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Re: Disable X crossing
« Reply #3 on: July 16, 2010, 02:03:17 PM »
How about a community policy to make sure that such ways are:

1. Never included in a main pak
2. Clearly marked where offered for download

Nothing prevents an author from offering two versions of a way: One with denied-crossings (or some such), one with full crossings....

I think there might be an assumption that such a pack might be included in a main distribution - but I don't think that's necessarily the case...

Offline Lmallet

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Re: Disable X crossing
« Reply #4 on: July 16, 2010, 02:17:13 PM »
How about a community policy to make sure that such ways are:

1. Never included in a main pak
2. Clearly marked where offered for download

Nothing prevents an author from offering two versions of a way: One with denied-crossings (or some such), one with full crossings....

I think there might be an assumption that such a pack might be included in a main distribution - but I don't think that's necessarily the case...

Or that.  :)

Offline Fabio

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Re: Disable X crossing
« Reply #5 on: July 16, 2010, 03:17:24 PM »
Well, my idea was to have (if the pak maintainer agrees) several ways, with several speeds, with a different use. You could say: you can use X crossing, but to do it you need to use a lower speed road -- if you want a high speed road, you need to stand some restriction. I see it as a challenge gameplay-wise. If this doesn't appear desirable, let's deny this request from the start :)

EDIT:
e.g. i wanted to disable X crossing for roads faster than 90 km/h, and uphill/downhill (maybe also bends) ONLY for 200 km/h. You could climb, but using a 130 km/h stretch of road. The idea is to push the player to use the whole range of speeds, not only the fastest, as it is more appropriate for the road path.
« Last Edit: July 16, 2010, 03:20:57 PM by fabio »

Offline isidoro

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Re: Disable X crossing
« Reply #6 on: July 17, 2010, 01:45:08 AM »
Maybe another possibility is to have several max. speeds for the same class of road: 200kmh for horizontal straight, 100kmh for T crossing, 60kmh for X crossing, 80kmh for curve,...

Offline Isaac.Eiland-Hall us

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Re: Disable X crossing
« Reply #7 on: July 17, 2010, 02:07:42 AM »
That's a good idea!

Offline VS

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Re: Disable X crossing
« Reply #8 on: July 17, 2010, 03:47:05 PM »
You could price high quality ways agressively... then only the longest straight stretches would "pay back".

Offline Václav

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Re: Disable X crossing
« Reply #9 on: July 17, 2010, 04:11:07 PM »
I don't know how much it is agressive but I use simple matrix for ways:
basic:
build cost: speed * 2
maintenance: speed / 10
elevated, tunnels:
build cost: basic * 10
maintenance: basic * 2

Offline nitromefan

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Re: Disable X crossing
« Reply #10 on: July 18, 2010, 04:59:43 AM »
I don't understand why u want to disable x crossings. they are your basic crossing and it wont let me make a T crossing.

Offline Isaac.Eiland-Hall us

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Re: Disable X crossing
« Reply #11 on: July 18, 2010, 05:51:12 AM »
It's been explained in this thread.

Also, disabling an "X" crossing wouldn't prevent you from making a "T" intersection. That's really rather the point.
« Last Edit: July 18, 2010, 11:55:19 AM by Isaac.Eiland-Hall »

Offline nitromefan

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Re: Disable X crossing
« Reply #12 on: July 18, 2010, 10:25:48 AM »
what im saying is i don't know how to make a T crossing in the first place

Offline Isaac.Eiland-Hall us

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Re: Disable X crossing
« Reply #13 on: July 18, 2010, 11:54:59 AM »

Offline Gilles

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Re: Disable X crossing
« Reply #14 on: July 18, 2010, 02:14:07 PM »
On the other hand, T-junctions are, in Simutrans, due to the grid-based nature of the game, needed to make simple "branch-unction" on high speed lines, even if you make some bridges and/or tunnels to make a grade-separated interchange , in order to make what is apparently called a "flying junction" (see here).

Thus, I don't see why there should be a speed penalty for using them on my High Speed Lines. Maybe this point of view is a French one, because we have junctions which can be passed through by trains at 250 km/h (300 km/h if they go straight).

However, it's true that X-Junctions (which are also used to make T-Junctions for double-way train lines), are maybe too cheap (in gameplay terms, not in "money") to use, and that a speed penalty could be a way to have a real challenge to make High Speed Lines.

Now, for Classical Lines (0<v<160 km/h), this is really not an issue, we know how to make efficient switches now. So maybe, we could introduce a timeline thingie. But, it would be more work...

Well, I'm just throwing ideas there and there... but don't forget that a junction passed straight is never a penalty for a train. And I think that the program don't include the code necessary to make the speed limit based on the direction of the train, does it?


Offline Isaac.Eiland-Hall us

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Re: Disable X crossing
« Reply #15 on: July 18, 2010, 04:01:35 PM »
I hope everyone realizes that we're not discussing changing all ways in all paks, merely the **capability** for defining a particular road with certain restrictions........

This capability could be included, and completely unused by all pak maintainers.....

Offline Gilles

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Re: Disable X crossing
« Reply #16 on: July 18, 2010, 05:57:39 PM »
Of course. I was just thinking aloud about the consequences of such a feature. ^^