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Author Topic: pak.german Network game 1 - game offline  (Read 12301 times)

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Offline Frank

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pak.german Network game 1 - game offline
« on: September 06, 2010, 07:01:50 PM »
required http://forum.simutrans.com/index.php?topic=5878.msg56822#msg56822

human player and public player disable

map size: 224x192
start year: 1923
citys: 11
factory: 13


Playerlist
human: Frank
Napik 128 AS: Isaac
Trikky Transport: ?
H-trans Ltd: ? bankrupt
PSK & Co KG ( Player 6 ): jamespetts
Player 7: diegoviagens bankrupt
Player 9: ?
Player 11: TurfIt
Player 12: ? bankrupt
Player 13: jonasbb
« Last Edit: September 26, 2010, 04:01:22 AM by IgorEliezer »

Offline jonasbb

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Re: pak.german Network game 1
« Reply #1 on: September 06, 2010, 10:32:35 PM »
Nobody can play on this map.

You cannot play the human player (due to the password) and you can't create a own player (because of the password).

Could the programmer please allow to create new players from a password saved player?

@Frank:
You could create each player without then could all play on this map.

Offline Frank

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Re: pak.german Network game 1
« Reply #2 on: September 07, 2010, 04:37:17 AM »
...
You cannot play the human player (due to the password) and you can't create a own player (because of the password).
...

activate all players

Offline jonasbb

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Re: pak.german Network game 1
« Reply #3 on: September 08, 2010, 09:37:49 PM »
@Frank: would you please remove the public stop at (136,98,0).
I placed it there but it is in the way of the trainline.

Offline Isaac.Eiland-Hall us

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Re: pak.german Network game 1
« Reply #4 on: September 09, 2010, 04:41:31 AM »
I'm playing Napik.

Jonasbb has ruined my bus network - see Freiamt. :-(

Offline Frank

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Re: pak.german Network game 1
« Reply #5 on: September 09, 2010, 05:04:25 AM »
@Frank: would you please remove the public stop at (136,98,0).
....

I removed


For connecting the power lines to set a marker at the appropriate point.
Post the name of the marker. I then connect the power lines.


I'm playing Napik.

Jonasbb has ruined my bus network - see Freiamt. :-(

Until now, ot know who plays along. Therefore, no agreement was possible.

It should give each other. By public stations in the transition of the passengers on other players is possible.

The size of the current map is not well suited for multiple players. I am planning a larger card and will then set rules.
« Last Edit: September 09, 2010, 05:11:34 AM by Frank »

Offline TurfIt

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Re: pak.german Network game 1
« Reply #6 on: September 09, 2010, 05:45:06 AM »
I've mucked about with Player 11...

For connecting the power lines to set a marker at the appropriate point.
Post the name of the marker. I then connect the power lines.

Marker? If you mean "Make a Sign" network clients can't change the text.

Offline Frank

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Re: pak.german Network game 1
« Reply #7 on: September 09, 2010, 06:16:11 AM »
sorry, posted the possition

Offline jonasbb

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Re: pak.german Network game 1
« Reply #8 on: September 09, 2010, 06:06:01 PM »
Jonasbb has ruined my bus network - see Freiamt. :-(
Sorry, but i needed a few lokal bus transport for my train line.

But maybe we could be a passenger network together. All my train stations are public, so could also transfer passengers to this points

Offline Isaac.Eiland-Hall us

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Re: pak.german Network game 1
« Reply #9 on: September 09, 2010, 06:27:36 PM »
I'm not concerned with the competition - it's that you set your busses to wait for load, blocking the road.

I've set up an example in Mindin of the problem. Perhaps we can negotiate a solution :)

(If you get this too quickly - it'll take a few minutes for my example to arrive)

Offline jonasbb

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Re: pak.german Network game 1
« Reply #10 on: September 09, 2010, 06:37:54 PM »
If this is all.
I will remove all waiting time for all my bus stops and bus lines.

I hope this will help you. And again, sorry. This was not my intention.

Offline TurfIt

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Re: pak.german Network game 1
« Reply #11 on: September 09, 2010, 06:40:03 PM »
(If you get this too quickly - it'll take a few minutes for my example to arrive)

Very funny. A 8km/h horse jamming up the road.  :::)

Setting wait for load orders at stops on shared/public/main roads is a problem. So is running slow convois on them. 

Offline Isaac.Eiland-Hall us

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Re: pak.german Network game 1
« Reply #12 on: September 09, 2010, 06:56:48 PM »
Well, I was not intended to cause problems of my own... I started it from the depot, and it was the logical place to put a station...

1. Apologies for causing troubles. Not intended.

2. I cannot regain synch - I lost synch, and have tried twice to reconnect. I will remove the convoi as soon as I can get back in to the game...

@jonasbb: Did I sound angry? Maybe just a communication error. I didn't mean to just unilaterally force you to remove the waiting times. Maybe we can come up with some solution. :) Also: What sort of collaboration are you thinking on passengers? As in, the first question is: How can I get the passengers I have to you? Would you like me to add stops at your train stations, or...?

Sorry to all if I came across badly: not my intent. :)

And speaking generally: If anyone is open to any sort of negotiation or has some sort of suggestion, I'm open. :)

EDIT: Got in, tried to remove it - lost synch; not yet sure if it is gone, will try to reconnect...

Offline jonasbb

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Re: pak.german Network game 1
« Reply #13 on: September 09, 2010, 07:13:00 PM »
No you sounded neither angry nor badly.

But I think it is the easiest way to remove the waittime. Also for other people who want to play.

My trainstations are all public. All have a bustop near to it.
You could build local bus networks. Or north/south mainline.
The goal should be to have a good number of public stations and a mainline network for the huge passenger transfers.

Offline diegoviagens

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Re: pak.german Network game 1
« Reply #14 on: September 10, 2010, 11:49:57 AM »
I want to register to play online as a player in July

Offline jonasbb

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Re: pak.german Network game 1
« Reply #15 on: September 10, 2010, 12:25:06 PM »
@TurfIt: would you please make your bridge at (69,108,0) one field longer, so that I can build a second train line under it.

Offline diegoviagens

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Re: pak.german Network game 1
« Reply #16 on: September 10, 2010, 12:57:21 PM »
yes

Offline jonasbb

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Re: pak.german Network game 1
« Reply #17 on: September 10, 2010, 02:05:40 PM »
@diegoviagens: are you player 7?

Offline diegoviagens

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Re: pak.german Network game 1
« Reply #18 on: September 10, 2010, 02:39:30 PM »
yes, I'm the player 7
suggestion:

what do you think of the government to install bus stops
and the players go spreading the transmission lines?
because as soon as I see the cities would be more
organized.

Offline Frank

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Re: pak.german Network game 1 - Powerlines
« Reply #19 on: September 12, 2010, 12:32:14 AM »
Please, a little more care in the construction of power lines.

I set more Marker. Open 'List of Marker' an disabled 'Active player only'.
Please check whether you are affected.


Public player can connects powerlines. Please set a marker and post them here, the desire for connection.

Offline Frank

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Re: pak.german Network game 1
« Reply #20 on: September 12, 2010, 01:39:54 PM »
@diegoviagens

A little more care helps not to go bankrupt.

* Coaches are no longer makes sense in 1940.
* Too many vehicles on the lines ( Line 91 = 22, Line 87 = 10) also leads to the big minus.
* Who founded the start of the game is certainly a city like bankruptcy.

Offline jamespetts gb

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Re: pak.german Network game 1
« Reply #21 on: September 12, 2010, 02:28:48 PM »
Ahh, rats, I'm bankrupt, too. It's quite difficult joining late on a small map with lots of other players already going! However, an interesting question is raised about what to do about bankrupt players: we can keep spending money indefinitely, and our vehicles and ways are still there. A better handling of this may require code changes (to enable liquidation, perhaps, or buy-outs by other players), but does anyone have any thoughts on how best to handle bankrupt players in the interim?

Offline jonasbb

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Re: pak.german Network game 1
« Reply #22 on: September 12, 2010, 02:35:18 PM »
A buy other player option would be great.
I don't think this requires to much code changes.
A replace player by public player option is already coded (for bankrup).

Alternative I would prefer the same actions as for bankrup kis.
Destroy all buildings but no road (because there may be others players vehicles on this roads) and sold all vehicles.

Offline jamespetts gb

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Re: pak.german Network game 1
« Reply #23 on: September 12, 2010, 02:58:41 PM »
Jonas - what would happen to the road in the case of liquidation under the scheme that you suggest: would it come into the ownership of the public player?

Offline jonasbb

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Re: pak.german Network game 1
« Reply #24 on: September 12, 2010, 03:35:40 PM »
I told you only the way of bankrup KIs. There the road will go to the public player.

---------------------------------------------

For me there is one big problem on this map.

Anyone places additional routes for the same thing.
Example: I had a good working oil transport line. I transported all oil that was there.
But than there came another player and builds a second line. And then I got no oil more.

Why do you have to place more lines in such a situation.

If not all oil would be transported and the consumer gets not enought you are free to build additional routes.

The same for passenger transportation.
I have working passenger networks and then other overcrowd the cities and uses to slow vehicels and stop so my network.

Offline jamespetts gb

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Re: pak.german Network game 1
« Reply #25 on: September 12, 2010, 04:53:51 PM »
Jonas,

you raise very interesting points about competition in Simutrans. One of the motivations behind many of the changes in Experimental was to allow realistic competition: there, passengers, mail and goods take the quickest route, so, if one comes along and builds a new route, it will only get all the cargo if it is faster than what preceded it: that is fair competition. In Standard, the distribution is somewhat arbitrary. Whether that requires that the public player enforce local monopolies when playing Standard is another matter - not having effective competition does take some of the fun out of things, however.

As to slow vehicles: if the roads are public, this is something with which the players will just have to cope, as it is perfectly realistic for vehicles of all speeds to use roads. However, there is much to be said for modifying the "private road" sign such that it allows only the player who owns the road's vehicles to use it. A further enhancement might be to allow players who put down private road signs to let through the vehicles of other players selectively.  The same could, with some adaptation, apply to railway tracks, to allow for realistic joint lines.

Offline jonasbb

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Re: pak.german Network game 1
« Reply #26 on: September 12, 2010, 05:51:16 PM »
A further enhancement might be to allow players who put down private road signs to let through the vehicles of other players selectively.
It would be great if this comes into standard code.
Maybe it could open something like the player list but you can select which vehicles are allowed to drive through.
Public player would be for citycars.

Offline TurfIt

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Re: pak.german Network game 1
« Reply #27 on: September 12, 2010, 05:52:26 PM »
I told you only the way of bankrup KIs. There the road will go to the public player.

KIs ??


Anyone places additional routes for the same thing.
Example: I had a good working oil transport line. I transported all oil that was there.
But than there came another player and builds a second line. And then I got no oil more.

The 'fair' goods distribution patch I just submitted will generally help with this situation. The other player will still steal some of 'your' goods but you won't be left completely dry. Unfortunately, in your specific oil instance, the patch won't help as the station arrangement is a shared public stop as source to 2 separate private stops as destination. This is beyond the scope of my patch. If you could create your own station at the source then it would be fine. Of course Oil Rigs are a problem with their built in public stop.

Side note: Your raising the ocean in front of the other players canal entrance and placing a sign there to sabotage him is *NOT* the solution. Poetic justice, you may have stopped his boat but the route finder still routes all oil to him so you still aren't getting any oil.

Also, signs popping up everywhere blocking the map is not good.


The same for passenger transportation.
I have working passenger networks and then other overcrowd the cities and uses to slow vehicles and stop so my network.

I don't think the 'no_routing_over_overcrowded' setting is good for multiplayer games. All it takes is one player connected to a public service stop to provide insufficient transport to one of his private stops and eventually the public stop fills jamming everybody up. It's impossible for a player to connect often enough to monitor things. Even connecting once a day resulting in several game years (@20 bits/month) passing before a problem might be noticed.


As to slow vehicles: if the roads are public, this is something with which the players will just have to cope, as it is perfectly realistic for vehicles of all speeds to use roads. However, there is much to be said for modifying the "private road" sign such that it allows only the player who owns the road's vehicles to use it.

This sounds goods. Although perhaps a players' roads should be private by default. Also, building a private road over top of the public road should be disabled IMO; As should building traffic lights, or road signs of any kind on a public road. As seen in this game, havok ensues when signs/lights show up, or your vehicles are routed over another players' road and the player removes it!

Offline VS

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Re: pak.german Network game 1
« Reply #28 on: September 12, 2010, 07:49:48 PM »
KIs ??

Welcome to the i18n corner :)

language & code | acronym for "artificial intelligence"
----------------+--------------------------------------
  English - en  |  AI
   German - de  |  KI
    Czech - cs  |  UI


I think Spanish version has been used around here, too... ;D

Offline jonasbb

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Re: pak.german Network game 1
« Reply #29 on: September 12, 2010, 08:17:04 PM »
Now I play not fair, thats correct.
At the canal, I got some oil, but now the station is full and no more oil is prodced.

Offline IgorEliezer br

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Re: pak.german Network game 1
« Reply #30 on: September 12, 2010, 09:54:58 PM »
I think Spanish version has been used around here, too... ;D

IA for both Portuguese and Spanish, and probably for most Latin languages.

Write it down. ;)