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Author Topic: [poll] Transitioning open pak128 to normal use  (Read 12533 times)

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Offline VS

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[poll] Transitioning open pak128 to normal use
« on: November 17, 2010, 02:04:07 PM »
Per the post in "what is left to do" thread:

Well. There isn't much left to do. In principle, if some transitional incompatibility was allowed, the game would be playable anyway. Just a few buildings and bridges, that were inaccessible in the nightlies anyway. Which brings a question: should the missing objects be simply removed, or should I drop in placeholder graphics and hope that someone will create new versions?

Opinions?

Offline vilvoh

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Re: [poll] Transitioning open pak128 to normal use
« Reply #1 on: November 17, 2010, 02:54:29 PM »
I'm between remove them, I want play right now!! and playability first, let's make a proper replacement for each of them.

Offline Lmallet

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Re: [poll] Transitioning open pak128 to normal use
« Reply #2 on: November 17, 2010, 03:16:01 PM »
I voted for replace.  Playability is important, especially for new players.  Otherwise, they'll chose another pak (and draw for that pak  ;D).  If people can clearly see that stuff is missing, they might draw their replacements.
« Last Edit: November 17, 2010, 03:24:15 PM by Lmallet »

Offline wernieman

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Re: [poll] Transitioning open pak128 to normal use
« Reply #3 on: November 17, 2010, 03:23:13 PM »
I like a place holder like "Your graphic could be here"

Offline Zeno

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Re: [poll] Transitioning open pak128 to normal use
« Reply #4 on: November 17, 2010, 07:40:40 PM »
Playability is important, especially for new players.
I agree with Lmallet's opinion, it's the best option to attract new players.
Anyway, a "place your graphic here" like placeholder would hurt my eyes though, so I vote other because I'd prefer
1) wait until playability is improved to a minimum/acceptable level and
2) if can't wait anymore, just release as it is (I would save placeholders and ask for help in the forum/splash-screen instead)

Offline greenling

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Re: [poll] Transitioning open pak128 to normal use
« Reply #5 on: November 27, 2010, 08:44:58 PM »
I am for placeholder there can you view what´s for Pakfile are missing it!

greenling

Offline Zeno

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Re: [poll] Transitioning open pak128 to normal use
« Reply #6 on: November 27, 2010, 11:27:46 PM »
Just got an idea... a bit crazy one: with or without placeholders, what about putting additional advertisement buildings? I mean one/some city buildings with a glowing sign/poster asking for painters, and a description of what is needed in the detail text of those buildings. I don't know if it would be effective, but it would be curious, funny and cool! 8)

Offline An_dz

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Re: [poll] Transitioning open pak128 to normal use
« Reply #7 on: November 28, 2010, 11:38:04 PM »
Great idea Zeno. Maybe some billboards telling "PAINT ME!!". It sure attract attention.

Offline Spike

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Re: [poll] Transitioning open pak128 to normal use
« Reply #8 on: November 29, 2010, 11:29:19 AM »
Those objects which are needed for playing (because there is no alternative to them) should have placeholder. The others can be removed till a replacement has been developed.

Generally I lean towards the placeholder idea.

Offline VS

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Re: [poll] Transitioning open pak128 to normal use
« Reply #9 on: November 29, 2010, 11:41:27 AM »
Generally some 80% want placeholders, so... :o

Offline Spike

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Re: [poll] Transitioning open pak128 to normal use
« Reply #10 on: November 29, 2010, 12:41:34 PM »
That's difficult. So far I was under the impression that you have 80% replaced already, and 20% left to do ...

With only 20% real graphics it will be really hard.

Offline Combuijs

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Re: [poll] Transitioning open pak128 to normal use
« Reply #11 on: November 29, 2010, 01:59:12 PM »
Quote
With only 20% real graphics it will be really hard.

I think VS is talking about the results of the poll, not about the amount of graphics that need replacement.

Offline VS

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Re: [poll] Transitioning open pak128 to normal use
« Reply #12 on: November 29, 2010, 02:02:52 PM »
Of course! 20%, I'd just go shoot myself or something :P

Offline IgorEliezer br

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Re: [poll] Transitioning open pak128 to normal use
« Reply #13 on: November 30, 2010, 03:41:45 PM »
People want to play it SO HARD. :D
« Last Edit: November 30, 2010, 10:57:04 PM by IgorEliezer »

Offline Lmallet

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Re: [poll] Transitioning open pak128 to normal use
« Reply #14 on: December 01, 2010, 04:05:40 PM »
Wasn't Igor supposed to paint something?  :)

Offline IgorEliezer br

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Re: [poll] Transitioning open pak128 to normal use
« Reply #15 on: December 02, 2010, 10:36:38 PM »
"Me" is supposed to design buildings in real world. ;)

Offline sdog

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Re: [poll] Transitioning open pak128 to normal use
« Reply #16 on: December 02, 2010, 10:53:12 PM »
why playing simutrans on a computer, when he can play simcity for real?

Offline VS

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Re: [poll] Transitioning open pak128 to normal use
« Reply #17 on: December 02, 2010, 10:59:49 PM »
My guess would be lack of save/load function :)

Offline Zeno

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Re: [poll] Transitioning open pak128 to normal use
« Reply #18 on: December 03, 2010, 09:27:15 AM »
My guess would be lack of save/load function :)
I would also miss switching to the public service function :P

Offline wlindley us

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Re: [poll] Transitioning open pak128 to normal use
« Reply #19 on: December 04, 2010, 07:28:37 AM »
Worst part is when bankrupt you cannot just hit Esc and keep going anyway

Offline Zeno

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Re: [poll] Transitioning open pak128 to normal use
« Reply #20 on: December 04, 2010, 08:25:03 AM »
Wlindley wins...  :award:

Ok, now back to topic. Which objects do need placeholders? I guess these are candidates (let's make a list):
- 160 & 300 km/h rail bridges
- Post office extensions
... anything else? Were there any industries removed?

Offline wipi35

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Re: [poll] Transitioning open pak128 to normal use
« Reply #21 on: December 04, 2010, 10:31:00 AM »
Ok, now back to topic. Which objects do need placeholders? I guess these are candidates (let's make a list):

A few more ships, e.g. the Hovermarine and the modern looking Ocean liner.

Offline VS

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Re: [poll] Transitioning open pak128 to normal use
« Reply #22 on: December 04, 2010, 12:15:23 PM »
Thanks to lots of attention in the past, industries are not a concern :D

Worth a few tears:
* Post offices and modern warehouse
* Rail bridges
* Trams that can drive in 4s



Warehouse tangent split to another topic:

http://forum.simutrans.com/index.php?topic=6314.0
« Last Edit: December 04, 2010, 10:48:26 PM by VS »

Offline Václav

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Re: [poll] Transitioning open pak128 to normal use
« Reply #23 on: December 06, 2010, 05:49:22 PM »
* Trams that can drive in 4s
I don't understand this.

Offline Combuijs

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Re: [poll] Transitioning open pak128 to normal use
« Reply #24 on: December 06, 2010, 06:05:32 PM »
I think he means trams with 4 wagons.

Offline sdog

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Re: [poll] Transitioning open pak128 to normal use
« Reply #25 on: December 06, 2010, 07:23:28 PM »
shouldn't it be possible to couple any number of single car trams? (i mean the non articulated)

here's a picture of some (primordial) american australian ones (random google find)
« Last Edit: December 06, 2010, 07:58:13 PM by sdog »

Offline VS

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Re: [poll] Transitioning open pak128 to normal use
« Reply #26 on: December 06, 2010, 07:34:29 PM »
Yes, but there would have to be some of these first... Or more precisely: there should be some in the later 20th century. The 1930 period has been covered well by Raven's stuff.

Offline sdog

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Re: [poll] Transitioning open pak128 to normal use
« Reply #27 on: December 06, 2010, 07:59:50 PM »
perhaps i don't remember correctly, and mix up something with other paks, but i thought those early single car trams already in the pak couldn't be coupled?


something different,
is this:
http://128.simutrans.com/download/128svn-export@827.7z
the latest source release of pak128?
« Last Edit: December 06, 2010, 08:04:08 PM by sdog »

Offline VS

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Re: [poll] Transitioning open pak128 to normal use
« Reply #28 on: December 06, 2010, 11:08:57 PM »
Some of the early trams can have more unpowered parts. But for the second half of century there is a number of trams that will be removed...

And no, the source is definitely not recent.

Offline sdog

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Re: [poll] Transitioning open pak128 to normal use
« Reply #29 on: January 08, 2011, 07:32:51 AM »
ok, so that 7ziped source is not recent, i couldn't find a more recent version. Perhaps i should rephrase my question is that file the most recent openly available source at the moment? If not, could you please point me towards to a download link?

Offline VS

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Re: [poll] Transitioning open pak128 to normal use
« Reply #30 on: January 08, 2011, 09:20:11 PM »
Here's a somewhat more recent version?

http://128.simutrans.com/download/128svn-export@1111.7z

Offline sdog

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Re: [poll] Transitioning open pak128 to normal use
« Reply #31 on: January 08, 2011, 10:12:14 PM »
děkuji pěkně!


edit
just managed to build a running version of the pak. Thanks again.

btw, what does

FOLDERS-IF
unfree

in pakmak do?
Is it only related to unfree stuff not contained in this release, and it can be ignored?

Those pakmak files have been a good guide when building the Makefile. Seems much more straight forward to use pakmak.py in comparison to mose.py. However i haven't tried it yet.
« Last Edit: January 09, 2011, 09:05:17 AM by sdog »

Offline greenling

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Re: [poll] Transitioning open pak128 to normal use
« Reply #32 on: January 09, 2011, 10:10:33 AM »
VS thanks for the new 128svn-export@1111 zipfile
It´s very usefull!
I hate with the last zipfile 128svn-export@827 make a testvehicle with they i have beginning to test the powerlevel of some vehicles!

greenling

Offline VS

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Re: [poll] Transitioning open pak128 to normal use
« Reply #33 on: January 09, 2011, 11:23:31 AM »
sdog:

If you create environment variable PAKMAK_ALL and set it to 0 or 1, it controls if the unfree stuff is included. 0 = only open, 1 = everything (default).

Pakmak is "folder recursive" by design - directly inspired by makefiles in fact :) There are small oopsies here and there, but generally it does what I want. If you come up with makefiles, I'll be definitely interested in testing them. The main reason to not use them is that python is almost 1-click install on windows.
« Last Edit: January 09, 2011, 11:29:14 AM by VS »

Offline sdog

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Re: [poll] Transitioning open pak128 to normal use
« Reply #34 on: January 10, 2011, 02:49:02 AM »
you can find my Makefile in my git repository:

https://github.com/sdog/simutrans-pak128

It is not well tested yet, i just had a brief glance if it works. It will be quite difficult to check completeness, since i haven't used the pak in quite a while.