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Author Topic: [Network suggestion] Private stops on public ways  (Read 1500 times)

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Offline jamespetts gb

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[Network suggestion] Private stops on public ways
« on: December 16, 2010, 01:33:36 AM »
It occurs to me that one quite small change in the code could rebalance network games substantially for the better and reduce the need for restrictive rules on what players may build and at the same time reduce the need to involve the public service player: have an option, which, if enabled, would allow any player to use any stop built on a city road or a way owned by the public service player. Although, superficially, the theory that a player who invests money in building a stop should be allowed to keep other players off it is attractive, in games, this has proved impractical in crowded city centres, and is negated by the observation that it is perfectly reasonable that, if a player is to commandeer public property (the city street) for private reward, the price for doing so should be allow others to use that property for the good of the city's transport network as a whole.

This change would be particularly easy to implement and could resolve the 'bus network problems that I remember from the early days of network games very easily (and I should also observe that it would make games more realistic, since I have never known 'bus stops on public roads being reserved for only one company's 'buses). Indeed, I am strongly considering putting this into Experimental very soon, but wanted feedback on the idea just in case I had missed something in the way of undesirable side-effects, or complexities that would have to be addressed before implementation.

Offline Dwachs

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Re: [Network suggestion] Private stops on public ways
« Reply #1 on: December 16, 2010, 08:11:10 AM »
Such a setting can be easily bypassed by players: first remove public way, then build their own way. Also it does not cure the problem that players let bussed wait at such stops for full-load resulting in long queues of other vehicles behind.

One could also think of forcing stations on public/city roads to be public. But this has the same problems than your suggestion.

Offline jonasbb

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Re: [Network suggestion] Private stops on public ways
« Reply #2 on: December 16, 2010, 09:33:01 AM »
A problem with public stops is a normal player cannot rebuild the station.

I had no problem with letting other vehicles stop at my stations, but I hate it if I cannot modify my station.
You have allways to wait for a public player to solve this problem.

Offline ras52

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Re: [Network suggestion] Private stops on public ways
« Reply #3 on: December 17, 2010, 01:16:58 AM »
[...] have an option, which, if enabled, would allow any player to use any stop built on a city road or a way owned by the public service player.

Can you clarify what exactly you mean by a city road?  Many paks (e.g. pak128.Britain) have a specific type of road called a 'city road', but I presume you don't mean that.  I assume you mean any road within a city that's unowned (PLAYER_UNOWNED in the code; "Unowned or privately owned" in the English translation).

My experience is that after a city has had a few decades' growth and you've upgraded your transport infrastructure a few times, it's completely arbitrary which roads in cities are still unowned, which are yours, and which are public service player's (if you use it).  I think it would be more transparent to say that you can build bus stops on any roads in cities (even those owned by other players), and that any player can use any bus stops within the city boundaries, irrespective of who built them.  That's different from saying the stops become public -- as jonasbb points out, doing that means players can no longer replace them.  (I might consider bridges and tunnels to be an exception as they're much more expensive investments and it might make sense to protect that investment.  Also, unlike roads, they're a big multi-tile object; if someone else is allowed to build a cheap bus stop on an expensive bridge, it prevents you from subsequently removing the bridge, e.g. to extend it by one square.)


Offline jamespetts gb

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Re: [Network suggestion] Private stops on public ways
« Reply #4 on: December 17, 2010, 01:16:27 PM »
Richard,

interesting thought. (to answer the question in your first paragraph; your assumption is correct, save that it would apply also to ways owned by the public service player). Problems arise, however, as cities have exactly rectangular boundaries, so an area of land that might not be within the developed city area might well still be within the city limits (to use the American expression) as far as Simutrans is concerned, which means that a stop on a private road running through a corner of a "city" so defined, some distance from any actual development, would be fair game for all players through what is in many respects an arbitrary mechanism.

In a network game, one could quite easily have a rule that players do not build their own roads where there are existing city roads (which would be sensible in any event, since a player could otherwise either downgrade a city road to a dirt track in the year 2010 or put a motorway in a town centre), which would prevent the difficulties arising.