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Author Topic: [in devloppement] High buildings  (Read 80823 times)

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Offline gauthier

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[in devloppement] High buildings
« on: November 02, 2008, 07:38:53 PM »
Hi all,

the problem is this :

_I find level 60 too small for the highest buildings.
_In pak128 there was only ONE RES, COM and IND building with the highest level so when a city is growing too much, there is only these three building appearing making something very ugly ...

the project : create many new buildings for pak128 wich have a higher level than 60 BUT there must are various building to have the highest level.

I have already begun this project with these buildings :
the highest level is 80.
Post here your city buildings and ideas !

EDIT : project suspended because of no time. Feel free to use sources to resume this project.

last version of high buildings
=> http://www.simutrans-france.fr.nf/lib/exe/fetch.php?media=fr:building.snfos_high.pak
sources
=> http://graphics.simutrans.com/thumbnails.php?album=51
« Last Edit: February 03, 2013, 12:39:40 PM by gauthier »

Offline maister

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Re: [in devloppement] High buildings
« Reply #1 on: November 03, 2008, 09:03:54 AM »
I think, not only the height of the buidling represent a big/booming city, also is very important that the buidling are looking very nice. With nice blue, greenish or reddish-brown shining/glossy windows-surface around the building.

For impressions:
« Last Edit: November 03, 2008, 09:15:19 AM by maister »

Offline gauthier

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Re: [in devloppement] High buildings
« Reply #2 on: November 03, 2008, 06:45:10 PM »
unfortunately I don't know how to draw it :(

Offline vilvoh

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Re: [in devloppement] High buildings
« Reply #3 on: November 03, 2008, 08:23:38 PM »
Those surfaces are quite difficult to draw if you use pixel-art techniques but you may start using gradients.BTW, I like the dubai supertowers pic.... ;)
« Last Edit: November 03, 2008, 08:25:45 PM by vilvoh »

Offline gauthier

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Re: [in devloppement] High buildings
« Reply #4 on: November 03, 2008, 10:16:04 PM »
what are "gradients" ?

Offline vilvoh

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Re: [in devloppement] High buildings
« Reply #5 on: November 03, 2008, 11:40:25 PM »
For creating the glass effect, you may use gradients (short tutorial) Basically, a gradient is a set of near colors that goes from dark to light, and it's used to simulate shadows.



From Computer Desktop encyclopedia:
Quote
A smooth blending of shades from light to dark or from one color to another. In 2D drawing programs and paint programs, gradients are used to create colorful backgrounds and special effects as well as to simulate lights and shadows.

Offline maister

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Re: [in devloppement] High buildings
« Reply #6 on: November 04, 2008, 06:34:06 AM »
I`m not sure, if that the right effect for non transparent glazing effects like the dubai towers?

I know Photoshop good and 3d Studio Max a little bit. There you work with material-gloss(reflection-potency) and lighting (illuminate).
And sure in Photoshop you can generating only the illusion of this effect.

Offline vilvoh

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Re: [in devloppement] High buildings
« Reply #7 on: November 04, 2008, 07:48:57 AM »
Well, It's easier to get that effect with a 3D program like Blender or 3DSMax, of course. I'm not an expert on pixel art. Perhaps A. Brose or any other pixel-artist from here knows more about this issue.

Offline jbode

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Re: [in devloppement] High buildings
« Reply #8 on: November 04, 2008, 08:41:24 AM »
Regarding high-level buildings:

- those unique building need to be unique in ST, as in RL
- option to define a painted object as "unique" within the pak
- option of allowed surrundings needed

I would like that (beside the graphics) into extention requests

Jörg

Offline gauthier

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Re: [in devloppement] High buildings
« Reply #9 on: November 05, 2008, 03:55:00 PM »
last creations :

http://img1.imagilive.com/1108/HighSNFOS.PNG

I haven't really understood what you mean, can you explain ?

Quote
- option to define a painted object as "unique" within the pak
- option of allowed surrundings needed

Offline vilvoh

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Re: [in devloppement] High buildings
« Reply #10 on: November 05, 2008, 04:11:11 PM »
I would use smaller trees in rooftops. Those gardens on the top seems a little bit strange to me.
« Last Edit: November 05, 2008, 04:13:40 PM by vilvoh »

Offline Spike

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Re: [in devloppement] High buildings
« Reply #11 on: November 05, 2008, 04:17:29 PM »
In regard to this message:
http://forum.simutrans.com/index.php?topic=739.msg6185#msg6185

Problem: If there are only few buildings of the highest level, cities will at some point only show these in the centers -> too many of the same buildings are shown, which looks bad.

Solution: Have a multitude of buildings on the highest level of a pak set. Simutrans will choose from them randomly and at least create a little bit more varied skyline for high level city cores.

Don't bump single buildings to a higher levels, or you'll end up with only these in city centers.

Offline gauthier

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Re: [in devloppement] High buildings
« Reply #12 on: November 05, 2008, 04:42:47 PM »
All my highest buildings have level 80

Offline vilvoh

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Re: [in devloppement] High buildings
« Reply #13 on: November 05, 2008, 04:54:28 PM »
The highest value I would put would be 23, as much 25.. Anyway, Hajo's advice is very reasonable. Do not put the same level for all. Use a range, from 20 to 25 for example.

Offline gauthier

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Re: [in devloppement] High buildings
« Reply #14 on: November 05, 2008, 05:00:59 PM »
 ???

for example the black tower :

the highest (with five blocks) is level 80
4 blocks : 64
3 blocks : 48
2 blocks : 32

same the tower which has metal tubes to support its blocks.

The highest of the third tower in the first pictures has level 80, the medium sized tower has level 60 and the small one level 40.

If I correctly understand you, I have to change highest level : exemple :
black tower 5 blocks : 85
metal tubes tower 5 blocks : 75
highest third tower : 80

but If I do this, I will finish with only black tower  ???

(offtopic : I see a dat option to draw the ground under the building in the game to avoid a graphic problem with transparancy, what is this option because I have forgotten it :( )

Offline vilvoh

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Re: [in devloppement] High buildings
« Reply #15 on: November 05, 2008, 05:21:13 PM »
needs_ground is used when you do not want to paint building's ground, or it doesn't take the whole tile (to prevent graphic glitches or bugs I guess)

As I see it, you have several options:
1.- Put the same level for all, but different values for chance. This way all would appear from the same level but some of them would repeat more than others
2.- Put different level and the same chance. This way they will compete against other buildings with the same level, but not against the rest of the group.
3.- Different levels and chances. More variety at all levels.

Examples (lowest to highest):
1.- Level: 20 --- Chances: 18,14,10,6
2.- Levels: 14,16,18,20 -- Chance: 20
3.- Mix of the first two.
« Last Edit: November 06, 2008, 07:53:01 AM by vilvoh »

Offline gauthier

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Re: [in devloppement] High buildings
« Reply #16 on: November 05, 2008, 05:47:07 PM »
I don't understand the utility.

For the moment I have various buildings in very dense cities, I don't need some buildings more than others.

Offline VS

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Re: [in devloppement] High buildings
« Reply #17 on: November 05, 2008, 05:50:01 PM »
1) ::) needs_ground

2) All buildings try to upgrade as high as possible. If only one object has level 80, all buildings upgrade to this. So you need many buildings with same highest level. Best strategy for variety is making buildings with same level as highest in pakset.

@gauthier: you were right, what you thought first is correct!
« Last Edit: November 05, 2008, 05:52:16 PM by VS »

Offline gauthier

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Re: [in devloppement] High buildings
« Reply #18 on: November 08, 2008, 01:02:38 PM »
I have understood how to draw nice glass surfaces on buildings but there is a problem : I want theme to switch on the light in night so I can only use special colors :(

Offline VS

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Re: [in devloppement] High buildings
« Reply #19 on: November 08, 2008, 01:42:08 PM »
Cut from them the parts that should stay lit (windows etc.) and put them into FrontImage[]=*... (use * after = )

Voila, lower "layer" of building dark, higher with windows keeps colors always same.
« Last Edit: November 08, 2008, 03:37:10 PM by VS »

Offline gauthier

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Re: [in devloppement] High buildings
« Reply #20 on: November 08, 2008, 02:08:37 PM »
Quote
Cut from them the parts that should stay lit (windows etc.) and put them into FrontImage[]=*... (use * after = )

Voila, lower "layer" of building dark, higher with windows keeps colors always same.

Can you explain it very detailled ? I don't remember see it on german wiki  :o

Offline VS

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Re: [in devloppement] High buildings
« Reply #21 on: November 08, 2008, 02:20:40 PM »
a) BackImage is what you normally use. But you can add another image in front of it, FrontImage.

b) The = on lines where you tell which part of picture is used is not just =. You can also use => which forbids zooming, and =* which forbids dark images.

So, put the two together: windows are in separate image so it can be set to stay in day look. If you use bright colors, it looks like light in night.


No, it does not work. I can't find where it was written, too. But I remember clearly reading about it.

Oh, here: http://archive.forum.simutrans.com/topic/05119.0/index.html
« Last Edit: November 08, 2008, 02:42:36 PM by VS »

Offline gauthier

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Re: [in devloppement] High buildings
« Reply #22 on: November 08, 2008, 03:33:27 PM »
Quote
(use * after = )

I didn't see this, you're sure that it is possible ?

Offline gauthier

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Re: [in devloppement] High buildings
« Reply #23 on: November 09, 2008, 05:54:27 PM »
SNFOS_RES03 has snowy graphics.

I have just finished SNFOS_RES04 wich won't have snowy graphics because of the solar panels on its roof.


http://img1.imagilive.com/1108/massivehouse.png (for full size)

you can donwload the latest version of the project : http://files.filefront.com/buildingSNFOS+Highzip/;12301125;/fileinfo.html
« Last Edit: December 12, 2008, 08:02:53 PM by gauthier »

Offline gauthier

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Re: [in devloppement] High buildings
« Reply #24 on: November 20, 2008, 06:49:40 PM »
SNFOS web page of High buildings project : (the website isn't finished yet).

http://villeme.dyndns.org/snfos/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=4

(Is it possible to make a link picture, when you click on the picture, it works as a link but the link isn't shown ?)

Offline gauthier

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Re: [in devloppement] High buildings
« Reply #25 on: November 28, 2008, 10:08:48 PM »
Last creations :
_ 3 level with one, two and three towers
_ each level has two rotations but I can only show one because of a bug.
_ each one has a snowy view.

Skyline

Quote
eeer. It was a false bug, citybuilding rotations work well, the problem is in my dat file -_-"

sorry sorry sorry sorry, 100 times sorry

result  ;D

EDIT : can an admin merge my posts please ?  ;D

done! -VS
« Last Edit: November 28, 2008, 11:03:33 PM by VS »

Offline VS

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Re: [in devloppement] High buildings
« Reply #26 on: November 28, 2008, 10:24:00 PM »
No, since you added attachments to both… you must live with your crime :P

Or delete one attachment, add it to the other post, also move all text, then delete the empty post. I can do only the same.

Offline gauthier

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Re: [in devloppement] High buildings
« Reply #27 on: November 28, 2008, 10:32:55 PM »
I have retired the first attachments.

Quote
you must live with your crime

lol  :D

Offline gauthier

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Re: [in devloppement] High buildings
« Reply #28 on: December 04, 2008, 09:45:18 PM »
preview of the next one :

Offline ariarinen

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Re: [in devloppement] High buildings
« Reply #29 on: December 06, 2008, 02:28:07 PM »
Last creations :
_ 3 level with one, two and three towers
_ each level has two rotations but I can only show one because of a bug.
_ each one has a snowy view.

Skyline

result  ;D

EDIT : can an admin merge my posts please ?  ;D

done! -VS
That looks really nice

Offline gauthier

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Re: [in devloppement] High buildings
« Reply #30 on: December 06, 2008, 03:35:18 PM »
some buildings are still unnamed, you can see that on SNFOS page http://villeme.dyndns.org/snfos/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=4&Itemid=6
You can purpose a name for these buildings.

Offline Beder

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Re: [in devloppement] High buildings
« Reply #31 on: December 06, 2008, 05:30:45 PM »
Well, i think these buildings are high, but they don't seem naturalistic ;-)

Did you ever see a building which is about 20 Meters long but 400 meters high? ^^

There was a really nice and realistic building. 2x2 or 3x3 and really high. I don't know the name anymore but i think it was a simutrans headquarter.
Some building like this would be more realistic and beautiful (and more easy to draw)... because you have more pixels and maybe it will be more easy to draw difficult buildings.

i know i'm not a talented painter but i would like your buildings more when they would get a bigger "base"

Offline gauthier

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Re: [in devloppement] High buildings
« Reply #32 on: December 06, 2008, 05:33:15 PM »
I made it to give this feeling of very slim building. They don't seem naturalistic ... You know : newer buildings don't seem naturalistic in real life too :D

Offline gauthier

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Re: [in devloppement] High buildings
« Reply #33 on: December 11, 2008, 06:12:34 PM »

Offline gauthier

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Re: [in devloppement] High buildings
« Reply #34 on: December 17, 2008, 03:47:36 PM »
No feedback ? How disappointing ...
I'm waiting for your remarks to improve my graphics :/