Author Topic: Electrification for Shopping Center and Tree Plantation dropped?  (Read 14321 times)

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Offline Colin

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Re: Electrification for Shopping Center and Tree Plantation dropped?
« Reply #35 on: April 01, 2012, 12:30:20 AM »
My final words on Electrification.

Sorry  lied!!

 I now find that Coal Mines and Iron Ore Mines are not being fed by power even though I have a national grid and transformers to each. Power is being generated but not received.

I'm in serious trouble because I shot all my Pit Ponies when they became obsolete.
 
Edit. It appears it's only Solar power that isn't supplying. Coal Power Stations are supplying ok.
« Last Edit: April 01, 2012, 01:52:20 AM by Colin »
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Re: Electrification for Shopping Center and Tree Plantation dropped?
« Reply #36 on: April 06, 2012, 02:17:08 PM »
For the tree plantation; What about electric chainsaws?  :P

Instead I would not stick to 50% boost, but I would use a variable boost from 25% to 100%

Agricolture and mines could have 25%,
consumers 50%
manifacturing plants 75%
heavy industried (e.g. steel mill) 100%

Also power consumption would vary as AEO suggested.

I like this idea. One addition I would like to make is that power plants consume products more rapidly based on the power supplied. I.e. increase precentage consumed by the same amount as posted above for each connected industry of that type. It's far to easy to overload powerplants IMO.
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Offline ӔO

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Re: Electrification for Shopping Center and Tree Plantation dropped?
« Reply #37 on: April 06, 2012, 03:52:01 PM »
Yeah, that is one thing that struck me as weird.
The power plants are either on or off and some larger ones can guzzle its supplies, even if demand is only at 50% of its output.

I realize that this is more of an extension request than tweaks to dat files.
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Offline Roads

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Re: Electrification for Shopping Center and Tree Plantation dropped?
« Reply #38 on: April 18, 2012, 10:39:49 AM »
Until now I have avoided electricity like the plague.  I hated the power lines in SimCity, hate them in Simutrans and the one in my front yard.

I think the real life argument is really an RPG argument.  If it is something that is so un-realistic to you that you begin feeling like you are simply doing data input into a graphical environment, then the argument is valid but it may only be valid for you.  The next guy may have no problem with it whatsoever.  I think this is amply demonstrated in the responses above.

For me, I won't use it unless I'm forced to do so and if you go that far, please, please, please allow for underground power lines.

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Re: Electrification for Shopping Center and Tree Plantation dropped?
« Reply #39 on: April 18, 2012, 02:50:17 PM »
I noticed the gas station doesn't take power either.

What about having to use mechanical gas mups instead of electric pumps?
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Offline Colin

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Re: Electrification for Shopping Center and Tree Plantation dropped?
« Reply #40 on: April 19, 2012, 12:08:56 AM »
I realize that this is more of an extension request than tweaks to dat files.

Actually it isn't. We've had electricity in Simutrans for years until it was suddenly pulled with no explanation. Of course the developers have every right to do this. Unfortunately, it is a fact of life that we have power lines everywhere, so, to remove power from Simutrans is a backward step. If power is not to be supplied to factory/producers/users then it should be removed altogether and we will have to go back to coal powered trains etc.

I really don't understand why this discussion is still going on. Every operation needs power so it should be available. As far as I'm concerned, the removal of power to certain industries has done nothing to enhance the game. It's a mystery why it was ever removed.
I may not agree with what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it

Thought for the day

 When you are up to your backside in alligators, it is difficult to remind yourself that your initial objective was to drain the swamp.

Offline Roads

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Re: Electrification for Shopping Center and Tree Plantation dropped?
« Reply #41 on: April 19, 2012, 02:16:23 AM »
Yes Colin, in real life we do have power lines everywhere and everywhere they are ugly.  Have you ever heard anyone say, "look at that beautiful power line?"  Even if you have, I seriously doubt anyone has ever said, "I'm sooo happy I have a power line in my front yard."  Mine is actually off to side but I still do not like it but do freely admit, I love having electricity.  It is one of my fav things. :)

For me, a game is about thinking, figuring out how to do something, that is the most interesting thing about building roads and of course power lines fall right into that category.  Still, how much of this particular thing do you want?  After a week or so of playing SimCity I was bored to tears because of the lack of variety of things to do.  But a game can offer more than just figuring out how to do something, it can allow you to create!

Whether by design or accident, Simutrans has accomplished this to some extent and for that I will be forever grateful.  I know of no other game that has come even close to it in that respect.

Offline sdog

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Re: Electrification for Shopping Center and Tree Plantation dropped?
« Reply #42 on: April 19, 2012, 04:33:28 AM »
Colin, you don't connect your rail electrification to powerlines either. This is a simplification in the game, we have to life with them. I'll argue now that this far worse than what you critizise above.

In simutrans standard we don't connect cities to the powergrid either, we just assume they are connected. Minor consumers of electricity like farms and butchers are negligible in comparison to major consumers eg steelworks or refineries. Those  get their own 115 kV substation. The former get their own low voltage (up to 1 kV) transformer at best, if not just connected to the consumer (eg 400 V / 208 V three phase) network.

The model in the current implementation of electrical power is not so unreasonable. Experimental goes one step further, by allowing cities to be connected. Industries within city limits are connected in turn (without their own substation). It covers one aspect, but introduces the cases where a major consumer like a steel plant is connected through the city grid, not by their own high voltage line.

I return to my initial statement again: A modern Taurus locomotive (Siemens ES 64) has a power output of 6 MW! And that's just one single loco. Now show me the farm or supermarket that needs comparable power.

Offline Colin

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Re: Electrification for Shopping Center and Tree Plantation dropped?
« Reply #43 on: April 20, 2012, 01:08:46 AM »
Look guy's i agree with most of what you are saying but, my argument is, Factories/Stores/Producers need power, Factories/Stores/Producers can't operate without power,  Factories/Stores/Producers had power in Simutrans. Now Power has been removed from some Factories/Stores/Producers with seemingly no good reason.

OK so you don't like power lines, neither do I, but this is a simulation game for heavens sake not a discussion on the dislike of power lines. As for exp, my feelings on that are well known, so the less I say about that the better.

 I've been playing this game since mid/late 1996 when the thought of electrification probably never entered anyones head, a bit like airplanes. So when electrification became possible it was welcomed, as were airplanes, believe me at the start airplanes were not much cop either.

The whole point is, electrification is a fact of life, it's also a necessity in life, so it should not be removed just because someone doesn't like power lines.

Incidentally my power pole is in the middle of my front garden, but then I have 8 hectares so I don't notice it so much. Also, too, as well, I spent my youth in Stoke on Trent, UK. and was surrounded by power lines and power poles. Didn't even notice them but, if you let yourself become obsessed by then, of course you'll notice them.

                                                         POWER TO THE PEOPLE!!! (and to Simutrans please)
 
Sorry I forgot. @sdog I didn't mean that you should, or would, connect your power lines to you railways. (Although it's a thought, they have to get power from somewhere, and to my knowledge there are no underground power stations.) What I meant was, if you remove electrification from businesses that need electrification, you might as well remove it alltogether.
« Last Edit: April 20, 2012, 01:16:15 AM by Colin »
I may not agree with what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it

Thought for the day

 When you are up to your backside in alligators, it is difficult to remind yourself that your initial objective was to drain the swamp.

Offline sdog

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Re: Electrification for Shopping Center and Tree Plantation dropped?
« Reply #44 on: April 20, 2012, 01:27:08 AM »
Colin,
what i tried to explain is, that those low level power consumers like farms would not get their own high- or mid- voltage connection either. Not simulating the consumer distribution grid is a minor approximation in comparison to not considering powering of rail electification.

There's a way to remedy your troubles:
you can make a branch of the source code at either sourceforge (needs svn)
https://simutrans.svn.sourceforge.net/svnroot/simutrans/pak128/

or github (needs git)
https://github.com/pak128svn/simutrans-pak128

on windows this pak is best built with pakmak.py, included in the svn. you only need a version of makobj and python installed. the control files for pakmak are already set up, and recursively work through the pak, so you don't need to know details on usage, just run it.

here's an example for a dat file
https://github.com/pak128svn/simutrans-pak128/blob/master/factories/steel_mill.dat
look at the electricity amount and electricity boost lines.


Offline Colin

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Re: Electrification for Shopping Center and Tree Plantation dropped?
« Reply #45 on: April 20, 2012, 03:58:31 AM »
Thank's for that sdog. Unfortunately Programming is not my forte. :-[ I have trouble programming the TV Remote. I was an electronics tech in my younger days and still build/repair computers for friends, but that's it. Programming for me is looking at the TV guide. ;D
I may not agree with what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it

Thought for the day

 When you are up to your backside in alligators, it is difficult to remind yourself that your initial objective was to drain the swamp.