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Author Topic: Several Depots, Only One List of Routes  (Read 2717 times)

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Offline Roads

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Several Depots, Only One List of Routes
« on: March 30, 2012, 10:56:18 PM »
This is not a huge problem but it could work much better and easier in my opinion.  Maybe I'm not going about it right but here is what is happening.  When I begin a new game, I build a depot and begin creating routes.  Eventually the list gets large and takes quite a bit of time clicking through it when I'm adding new vehicles to an existing route.  When my transportation system expands too far away from the original depot to send vehicles without too much delay, I build another depot.  The new depot has all the routes listed as the original one!  This simply compounds the problem of clicking through the list to find the route you are looking for.  Couldn't each depot contain only the routes created at it?


Also nice would be an option to switch routes from one depot to another and thus automatically moving all the vehicles associated with that route to their new home depot.

Offline Fabio

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Re: Several Depots, Only One List of Routes
« Reply #1 on: March 30, 2012, 11:37:06 PM »
I Partly disagree. I might want to use a line I created in a depot for vehicles bought in another depot (e.g. 2 depots at the 2 ends of a very long route).

Instead, I would prefer to hide all lines for which path finder cannot find a route from the depot to the first stop (e.g. Non connected networks)

Offline Roads

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Re: Several Depots, Only One List of Routes
« Reply #2 on: March 30, 2012, 11:42:30 PM »
Yep Fabio, I had not thought of that.  Your idea is much better.

Offline transporter

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Re: Several Depots, Only One List of Routes
« Reply #3 on: March 31, 2012, 12:59:06 AM »
What about adding the filter function like in the line manager?

Offline Roads

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Re: Several Depots, Only One List of Routes
« Reply #4 on: March 31, 2012, 04:37:30 AM »
Actually I have not found the filter function in the line manager of much benefit.  I guess it is because I always have lots of truck routes and few of the other modes of transportation.  It would be much more useful if I could filter by vehicle type.  But the line manager is not a real problem for me because I am very conscientious when naming routes,i.e., the name is where the vehicle departs from or a pick up/drop off route.

A filter for depots would be useful since I assume the filter would have to be by vehicle type.

Offline ӔO

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Re: Several Depots, Only One List of Routes
« Reply #5 on: March 31, 2012, 11:12:59 AM »
I think it would be better if you can create folders or groups so that lines can be grouped together.
Currently, I just use a naming convention that is clever to me.

Offline Fabio

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Re: Several Depots, Only One List of Routes
« Reply #6 on: March 31, 2012, 11:18:53 AM »
Filtering off unconnected networks would serve a different purpose: it would prevent players assigning by mistake a non connected route and having the vehicle stuck just after it leaves. It would be quite straightforward, as I don't see any reason why an unconnected route should be assigned in a given depot.

Offline Ters

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Re: Several Depots, Only One List of Routes
« Reply #7 on: March 31, 2012, 12:42:07 PM »
It is possible that filtering the list of lines, by trying to find a route between one of its stops and the depot just clicked on, could take some time. The result can be cached, but any way (de)construction would invalidate the cache.

When a user interface presents a long list, and it is reasonable to assume that the user knows which item to select, I excpect that the list to be sorted alphabetically and that typing a letter jumps to the first item starting with that letter. That's a minimum. Ideally, typing a seconds letter soon after the first, should jump to the first item starting with those two letters, and so on. This doesn't work so well with the format used for default names given to lines and convoys by Simutrans, since they all start with ( and then a number I would only be able to remember for lines I work with often, but I replace the entire name anyway.

Offline Fabio

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Re: Several Depots, Only One List of Routes
« Reply #8 on: March 31, 2012, 01:59:32 PM »
Multi threading could come handy here. Checking connections would be asyncrously performed as soon as you open depot view. The lines list would be empty and disabled; when filtering is done, the list is populated and enabled. In the meantime the player can buy the convoy.  Lines can be cached, whenever you build/remove a way of that type the cache is marked as stale.

Offline ӔO

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Re: Several Depots, Only One List of Routes
« Reply #9 on: March 31, 2012, 03:38:13 PM »
There are plenty of ways to organize lines.

Here are some for inspiration:
http://forum.simutrans.com/index.php?topic=9371.msg88004#msg88004

Offline Roads

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Re: Several Depots, Only One List of Routes
« Reply #10 on: April 01, 2012, 02:26:53 AM »
Yes AEO, what you are saying is of course, correct and a systematic approach.  I think we would all be lost without naming conventions.  Still the question remains, why not make the list shorter?

Offline Roads

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Re: Several Depots, Only One List of Routes
« Reply #11 on: May 22, 2012, 08:59:39 AM »
Wondering if anything has been done on this.  In my current game, I have only vehicles and ships.  The game is still young and already have something like 150 routes.  Needless to say I spend a lot of time just clicking through the list when adding vehicles to a route.  This is especially tiresome when I need to upgrade the vehicles.  I always have several routes and jumping back and forth between the routes as vehicles unload takes a huge amount of time.

Offline Combuijs

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Re: Several Depots, Only One List of Routes
« Reply #12 on: May 22, 2012, 09:20:39 AM »
Quote
Wondering if anything has been done on this

For me, still not really a must-have, maybe a nice-to-have, and only if it does not influence performance. That really is a problem, even with multithreading, all routes still must be calculated.

I have over 400 lines, but finding the right line usually is almost instant. Just organise the names of your lines in a logic way. I don't want to wait for a few seconds (minutes?) to get a list of available lines. That would be most annoying.

And how far do you go? You still can assign a line to an electric convoy, which can't find a route. And for experimental: should weight-limits and that kind of things be considered? (Yes, they depend on the convoy you are picking...)

So I guess if you want to have it, start programming it. And if you can't program, then be patient... We are all volunteers here and time is usually sparse!

Offline Roads

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Re: Several Depots, Only One List of Routes
« Reply #13 on: May 22, 2012, 05:28:55 PM »
Combuijs, how do you access the right line almost instantly?  When I bring up the "Garage" popup, the list begins either with "a" if I've just started the game or with the last route I've used if I've been playing awhile.  Maybe there is something I just don't understand.  I name my routes with some convention of city names.  The city names can begin with anything from "a" to "z."  Since this is true, if I have a city named "Trials," then I'm going to have to click just about all the way through the list to get to the route I need.

I absolutely understand this game is all done by volunteers.  I appreciate your candor in saying this is not a priority.  Since it is not, I'll put it on my "todo" list.

Offline kierongreen

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Re: Several Depots, Only One List of Routes
« Reply #14 on: May 22, 2012, 05:42:51 PM »
You can click and drag the scroll bar to move through the list of lines - it's not completely accurate when you have large numbers but it gets you into the right area then just a few clicks to get the exact line.

Offline Roads

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Re: Several Depots, Only One List of Routes
« Reply #15 on: May 22, 2012, 05:51:26 PM »
kierongreen!!!

You are the man!  Thank you, thank you, thank you.

I have been so stupid - never even noticed the scroll bar.

Offline Combuijs

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Re: Several Depots, Only One List of Routes
« Reply #16 on: May 22, 2012, 05:59:29 PM »
kierongreen!!!

You are the man!  Thank you, thank you, thank you.

I have been so stupid - never even noticed the scroll bar.

 :o

Not shocked by your so called "stupidness" (which is not stupid, you just overlooked something), but by the amount of knowledge one takes for granted when discussing these things. I was so very sure you used the scrollbar, that it never crossed my mind that you had not seen it...

Offline Ters

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Re: Several Depots, Only One List of Routes
« Reply #17 on: May 22, 2012, 08:25:10 PM »
To find the scrollbar, you first have to realize that the second field in the depot is actually a drop down box, despite looking identical to the first field, that isn't. It took me some time to realize that, and then only by chance.

Offline Roads

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Re: Several Depots, Only One List of Routes
« Reply #18 on: May 23, 2012, 10:46:20 AM »
Thanks guys, that makes me feel better about having missed this.  The truth is, I don't recall ever having clicked in that field other than maybe by accident.  Obviously when that happened my observation ability was sadly lacking...