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Offline isidoro

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Unprofitable vehicles, even if full
« on: May 13, 2012, 11:25:47 AM »
I'm playing a game with Pak128.Britain and ST111.  I've noticed that with some vehicles, it is impossible to make a profit even if full in both directions!

Around 1974, for instance, there are two kinds of airplanes, both very much unprofitable even if full in both directions.  The same happens with mail transportation by road.  Impossible.  I've had to close "Flying Wings", the passenger air transportation company for this reason and the mail transportation one is at a heavy loss that put it on the verge of being closed too.

Is this intended?  In other paks, some of these vehicles (few) do exist, but belong to a more extensive chain where you get some profit to compensate for them.  Is it realistic that a vehicle exist that you cannot ever get profit from?


Offline jamespetts gb

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Re: Unprofitable vehicles, even if full
« Reply #1 on: May 13, 2012, 11:43:36 AM »
This wouldn't have been intended: Pak128.Britain is still awaiting balancing. It would help if you could list the specific vehicles with which you are having difficulties. (Also, aircraft might be unprofitable if used on journeys that are not long enough, so bear that in mind).

Offline isidoro

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Re: Unprofitable vehicles, even if full
« Reply #2 on: May 13, 2012, 07:30:03 PM »
I've done the calculations for where I am now, in 1976...

These are the two airplanes present in 1976:
  Name:  Top Speed:  Capacity:  Cost/tile:  Income full/tile:  Net gain full/tile:
BAC_111_200       815km/h     89pax    28c0.28*89=24.92c    -3.08c
BAC_111_500       742km/h    119pax    32c0.25*119=29.75c    -2.25c

And these are the vehicles capable of transporting mail by road in that time:
  Name:  Top Speed:  Capacity:  Cost/tile:  Income full/tile:  Net gain full/tile:
Mailbike        20km/h      2bags     0.01c0.02* 2= 0.04c    0.03c
Morris Marina Van       100km/h    20bags    2.11c0.15*20= 3.00c    0.89c
Leyland Sherpa Van        86km/h    28bags    2.11c0.12*28= 3.36c    1.25c
Leyland DAF 200        90km/h    28bags    2.11c0.13*28= 3.64c    1.53c
AustinMorrisEAPost        82km/h    34bags    2.11c0.11*34= 3.74c    1.63c
Morris FG        88km/h    36bags    1.32c0.12*36= 4.32c    3.00c
Leyland G        95km/h    36bags    1.32c0.14*36= 5.04c    3.72c

Although the numbers doesn't seem as bad for mail, since most of this transport is inside a city and speed limit is 50km/h there, things change somewhat:
  Name:  Top Speed:  Capacity:  Cost/tile:  Income full/tile:  Net gain full/tile:
Mailbike        20km/h      2bags     0.01c0.02* 2= 0.04c    0.03c
Morris Marina Van       100km/h    20bags    2.11c0.04*20= 0.80c    -1.31c
Leyland Sherpa Van        86km/h    28bags    2.11c0.04*28= 1.12c    -0.99c
Leyland DAF 200        90km/h    28bags    2.11c0.04*28= 1.12c    -0.99c
AustinMorrisEAPost        82km/h    34bags    2.11c0.04*34= 1.36c    -0.75c
Morris FG        88km/h    36bags    1.32c0.04*36= 1.44c    0.12c
Leyland G        95km/h    36bags    1.32c0.04*36= 1.44c    0.12c

If you consider fixed costs, road and station maintenance, and consider that an intracity mail network is very difficult to keep all vehicles at full load, nearly all the lines of the mail company are in the red.

For the air transportation company, it is odd, but some years ago, the same two airplanes made a decent profit...

By the way, showing the net income when the vehicle is full at full speed and at 50 km/h would be a nice addition to the game...

Offline neroden

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Re: Unprofitable vehicles, even if full
« Reply #3 on: May 13, 2012, 09:02:26 PM »
By the way, showing the net income when the vehicle is full at full speed and at 50 km/h would be a nice addition to the game...

I have some standard heuristic "will this be more profitable" computations which I do, but I'm unsure whether it would be wise to include them in the actual game.

Regarding the specific situation with lorries and mail, I think the running costs of the vans are (sensibly) standardized so that the Austin Morris costs the same amount to run no matter what it's carrying.  If you're making appropriate amounts of money with road transport of other goods, then I think the profitability of mail should probably be increased overall in the 1976 period.

The airplanes are another matter.  I'm not sure, but I think the solution is to introduce new airplanes. These are all old airplanes which were introduced before the oil crisis of the 1970s, and it kind of makes sense for them to start losing money in 1976.  But the pakset doesn't have replacement "fuel efficient" planes until 1983; in fact there are no passenger planes introduced between '68 and '83, which is a bit of a gap.

Offline jamespetts gb

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Re: Unprofitable vehicles, even if full
« Reply #4 on: May 13, 2012, 09:33:53 PM »
Hmm - perhaps we could do with a Tristar or something? Giuseppe/Milko is doing sterling work with the aircraft; he has typically produced a slow but steady stream of high quality models, so he may well fill the gap in due course (although it might take a while).

Offline isidoro

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Re: Unprofitable vehicles, even if full
« Reply #5 on: May 13, 2012, 10:39:50 PM »
@neroden: I've observed the same lack of profit for nearly all goods lorries.  I guess that the problem is that inside cities the speed limit is 50km/h and, for that speed, revenue is small, if not negative...



Offline neroden

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Re: Unprofitable vehicles, even if full
« Reply #6 on: May 13, 2012, 11:38:25 PM »
@neroden: I've observed the same lack of profit for nearly all goods lorries.  I guess that the problem is that inside cities the speed limit is 50km/h and, for that speed, revenue is small, if not negative...

A-ha.  That's a trickier problem.  That requires fairly subtle balancing; we don't really want in-city road transport to be very profitable, but we don't really want it to make a consistent loss, either.

Does this happen mainly in the 1976 period, and not earlier?  That would suggest a rearrangement of the income numbers for the 1976 period.

Offline el_slapper

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Re: Unprofitable vehicles, even if full
« Reply #7 on: May 14, 2012, 08:43:16 AM »
Airplanes are a special case in simutrans(not limited to Experimental, from my experience, I did see the same thing in standard PAK128) : they earn a lot of money early on, but need to be replaced quickly. Profitability falls quicky, and only the newer planes can earn money(and they earn a lot). As stated above, the phenomenon is really strong in the 70s.

Any "hole" in the planes list, & there is no way to be profitable any more.

Offline Milko

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Re: Unprofitable vehicles, even if full
« Reply #8 on: May 14, 2012, 09:36:12 AM »
Hello

I set the cost of operation with little data available. Costs are variable and are in fact very little information is available. When I do an assessment of the costs imposed on gross and I also rely on what I've set for similar aircraft that I have already drawn. It may be that for the BAC operating costs must be reduced. Unfortunately it is a long time since I play so I never had a direct return of the values ​​I entered.

For now I'm focusing on 747 (I want to make available the latest 747 models). Then I would finish the ATR turboprop in order to have well over 1990.
Then I think the L1011 tristar is a good candidate, because I saw that someone nominated him.

Giuseppe

Offline deadlyboring

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Re: Unprofitable vehicles, even if full
« Reply #9 on: May 14, 2012, 03:40:59 PM »
Playing with latest pak128.britain standard, i can report the same thing happening with Lorries in the mid 1930's era. For me it seems that there is definetly the need for lowering costs of Roadtransportation, nearly in all eras. Buildung Roads and paying the maintenance for these ones is nearly impossible if you only go by road as player.

Offline The Hood

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Re: Unprofitable vehicles, even if full
« Reply #10 on: May 14, 2012, 09:33:39 PM »
Game balance is a known issue. I have two explanations for this - choose which one you think fits best!
1) Many gaps still exist: significantly in planes, ships and narrow gauge. I would like to plug these before getting the balance right between all of them.
2) I'm a slightly lazy, big-picture person, and I prefer drawing new stuff to doing the nitty gritty of sorting out game balance numbers.

In fact, I'd be quite happy if someone else took care of balancing considerations entirely and I just drew stuff and co-ordinated releases. That probably won't happen though.

So yes, planes especially are not balanced correctly for standard yet. Thanks for the report.

Offline jamespetts gb

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Re: Unprofitable vehicles, even if full
« Reply #11 on: May 14, 2012, 09:45:17 PM »
I'll be balancing Experimental eventually, but (1) that's still quite a way off, since there are features that must be added which have a significant impact on balance before the balance can be got right; and (2) the balance for Experimental will be different to the balance for Standard, so one probably won't be able to back-extrapolate.

Offline isidoro

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Re: Unprofitable vehicles, even if full
« Reply #12 on: May 14, 2012, 10:57:32 PM »
Ok.  No problem.  I only pointed out the problem since it seemed consistent for more or less all road transportation and more or less 1930-1976 (where I am now).

I guess that was not a problem before, when the top speed of the vehicle was considered for the speed bonus, but now, it doesn't matter whether the vehicle itself is quick or not, if it moves in a slow road.  And intra-city transportation must use 50km/h roads, you want it or not.  And inside-city transportation is more suited to be done by road...

There are also more problems regarding the speed bonus.  Since it is calculated for all road vehicles at the same time, no matter what they carry, if for some class of goods there is no top-speed vehicle, revenue is lower.  For instance, a very quick bus may ruin profit for a packets lorry.

Lastly, although not directly related.  I miss a bus station with low capacity and mail allowed.  The reason is that the mail bike could be used in those cheap stations to collect mail from the suburbs.  Now, it is nearly useless, since for big stations (two tiles), you need a myriad of them...




Offline jamespetts gb

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Re: Unprofitable vehicles, even if full
« Reply #13 on: May 14, 2012, 11:06:42 PM »
Hmm - can't you use the postbox station for mail only?

Offline kierongreen

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Re: Unprofitable vehicles, even if full
« Reply #14 on: May 14, 2012, 11:16:43 PM »
With the new constraint for speed bonuses it would make sense for some buses to be definitely balanced towards intra-city transport and others towards intercity.

Offline Junna

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Re: Unprofitable vehicles, even if full
« Reply #15 on: May 14, 2012, 11:37:34 PM »
I think in general that operating costs across the board should be much lower as compared to now. Impossible to haul a log train with an 86 and make a profit (even with my edited very generous bonuses!), for example, and one becomes very restrictive with locomotive usage due to how expensive they are to run.

I think that higher infrastructure costs is a better way to go than the currently high running costs.

Offline jamespetts gb

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Re: Unprofitable vehicles, even if full
« Reply #16 on: May 14, 2012, 11:42:40 PM »
There may be something to be said for an interim rebalancing of these Standard vehicles to make them at least playable until a full rebalancing can be done.

Offline isidoro

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Re: Unprofitable vehicles, even if full
« Reply #17 on: May 15, 2012, 12:10:15 AM »
Hmm - can't you use the postbox station for mail only?

Sure.  But for the suburbs with low-occupation houses, a shared cost between passengers and mail would make more sense.

Offline The Hood

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Re: Unprofitable vehicles, even if full
« Reply #18 on: May 15, 2012, 07:07:14 AM »
With the new constraint for speed bonuses it would make sense for some buses to be definitely balanced towards intra-city transport and others towards intercity.
What's that? Must have missed it...
There may be something to be said for an interim rebalancing of these Standard vehicles to make them at least playable until a full rebalancing can be done.
This would be best done by someone who (a) has good experience of playing the pakset recently and (b) is confident with spreadsheets/numerical calculations. Would anyone like to volunteer?

Offline kierongreen

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Re: Unprofitable vehicles, even if full
« Reply #19 on: May 15, 2012, 08:13:49 AM »
Well with a 50km/h limit in towns there now need to be buses balanced to be profitable at this speed.

Offline greenling

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Re: Unprofitable vehicles, even if full
« Reply #20 on: May 15, 2012, 06:29:12 PM »
Kierongreen
Those Problem gives in Pak128 too.


Offline isidoro

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Re: Unprofitable vehicles, even if full
« Reply #21 on: May 15, 2012, 10:28:01 PM »
What's that? Must have missed it...

To put it simply.  Earlier, a vehicle earning for a certain type of goods was given by its maximum speed.  You had a cart with max speed 15 km/h and a bus with a max speed of 120 km/h and you got much more profit from the bus, even if both ran on a dirt road with max speed of 10 km/h.

Now, the road the vehicle is traveling on plays a role.  In the example above, both vehicles would get the same benefit from transporting their passengers, which is quite logical.

The problem is that more vehicles are not now balanced for the new situation.  A 120 km/h bus has a higher running cost because you were supposed to compensate for it with the revenue due to its speed.  But now it is not the 120 km/h the speed it counts, it may be, for instance, if it is an intra-city bus, 50 km/h.  And you lose a lot of money.

Maybe some (or at least one) vehicle with a speed limit of 50 km/h and a low running cost should be available for all kind of goods and all times so that intracity transport is covered more or less...

Offline Martinwh1

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Re: Unprofitable vehicles, even if full
« Reply #22 on: May 25, 2012, 04:38:14 PM »
There appears to be a problem with the Morris FG Cool Goods as the capacity is shown as 1 when I think it should be 10 - the same as the piece goods. 

Offline The Hood

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Re: Unprofitable vehicles, even if full
« Reply #23 on: June 07, 2012, 12:55:32 PM »
Having decided to have a play (my first proper game in over 5 years!) I've discovered quite a lot of unbalnaced vehicles (and these are just ones obvious from the gameplay rather than systematic testing) - all pre-1900 trains so far. It's quite clear the whole set needs a major rebalance. Before we get too far, can I first of all just check what the conditions for assigning the speed bonus are now? For example, if a locomotive (150km/h) hauls coaches (120km/h) on a 100-tile journey, 50 of which are 100km/h track and 50 are 150km/h, what speed bonus is applied?

Offline kierongreen

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Re: Unprofitable vehicles, even if full
« Reply #24 on: June 07, 2012, 01:19:53 PM »
Speed bonus is the lower of the lowest speed vehicle in a convoi, the track or anyway way object. So, 50 tiles will be at 100km/h, 50 tiles at 120km/h.

Offline The Hood

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Re: Unprofitable vehicles, even if full
« Reply #25 on: June 07, 2012, 04:22:23 PM »
Thanks. So speedbonus is calculated on a per-tile basis from the max. theoretical speed for each tile?

Offline kierongreen

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Re: Unprofitable vehicles, even if full
« Reply #26 on: June 07, 2012, 04:27:04 PM »
Yes :)

Offline ӔO

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Re: Unprofitable vehicles, even if full
« Reply #27 on: September 20, 2012, 06:55:17 PM »
Playing with the latest version (simutrans 111.3.1 and pakbrit ver 1.12), I've noticed that, with road and rail, speed bonus can make or break pax networks, while freight is unprofitable at all times.

This means that you are best off with using the fastest train at your disposal, instead of using slower ones for lines with less traffic.
I would suggest the following:

- Increase pax payment from 0.14c to 0.16c
- Decrease pax speed bonus from 15% to 12%
- Increase mail payment from 0.16c to 0.18c
- Decrease mail speed bonus from 18% to 16%
- Increase payment of vegetables, fish, meat and milk by double
- Increase payment of all other freight goods by triple


Those are not calculated numbers, but just guesses as to what will make the pakset more playable.
Infrastructure maintenance is the main source of income loss, but the only thing that makes lines profitable is the speed bonus.

Offline The Hood

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Re: Unprofitable vehicles, even if full
« Reply #28 on: November 04, 2012, 09:37:21 PM »
I'm inclined to make these changes and see how it works out. Anyone have any strong views?

Offline jamespetts gb

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Re: Unprofitable vehicles, even if full
« Reply #29 on: November 04, 2012, 11:08:40 PM »
In the goods .dat file for the Experimental version, I have used (and reproduced the raw values of) actual historical relative rates for goods and passengers: it might be worthwhile having a look at these data.

Code: [Select]
#-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
#
#                      Dat file for simutrans goods types
#                            created by: Hj. Malthaner
#                                  16-Nov-02
#                                   updated:
#                               22-Feb-2003 (T. Kubes)
#                     09-Sep-2003 Added food chain good (T. K.)
#                     17-Nov-2003 Added beer, milk, table of units
#                     19-Nov-2003 Adjusted prices and added bonuses
#
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
#
# categories:
# 0 = type defined (unique)
# 1 = piece good (i.e. crates of XY)
# 2 = bulk good (i.e. ore, sand, coal)
# 3 = oil type fluid
# 4 = piece good refrigerated (i.e. cooled crates of XY)
# 5 = liquid food
# 6 = long goods (planks, steel (any flat-bed))
# 7 = fabric (or any lightweight packed goods - crates, sacks)
#
# units:
#          = none (no units displayed)
# sack     = bags
# tonnen   = t
# paletten = crates
# m3       = m^3
#
#-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
#
# See W. M. Ackworth, "The Elements of Railway Economics" p. 107 for historical records
# of relative charges for passengers and different types of goods on the Liverpool &
# Manchester Railway and previous pages for similar rates for canals (freight only).
#
# Generally speaking, per ton per mile:
# Low value bulk: 1d
# Medium value bulk (incl. coal) 1 1/2d
# High value bulk (incl. clay) 2d
# Perishables and semi-manufactured (incl. flour, timber and finished metals) 2 1/2d
# Manufactured goods: 3d
# Passengers (per passenger): -
# 1.8d (first 10 miles)
# 1.5d (next 20 miles)
# 1.4d (thereafter)
#
# Cattle (per head)
# 2d (first 15 miles)
# 1.4d (thereafter)
# Note that the LMR was only 35 miles long.
#
# See ibid pp. 111 and onwards for the later RCH classification system, as follows:
# A: Coal, coke, irone ore, furnace slag
# B: Clay, sand, manure, limestone, chalk, salt, unfinished stone, zinc ore, copper ore, bricks, paving stones, pig iron
# C: Hay, straw, grain, flour, seeds, fertiliser, chemicals, lead ore, part-finished iron goods
# I: Iron/steel hoops, pipes, sheets, plates, common fruit and vegetables, paper, cotton, beer in casks, oil in caks, tin ore
# II: Beer in bottles, wine in casks, bacon, biscuits, brass, china in casks or crates, coconut matting, nickel ore
# III: Cotton and linen goods, cured bacon, blankets, books, boots in casks, cases or boxes, china in hampers, woollen cloth, tea, silver ore
# IV: Pineapples, fresh cured meats, china in boxes or cases, woollen cloth in boxes, cases parcels or hampers.
# V: Amber, dyes, peaches and apricots, bonnet boxes, basketwork, bismouth, clocks, hats, artificial flowers, silk
#
# 1844 Act - 1d/mile for "parliamentary" vehicles for passengers.
#
# Ackworth, p. 145 has a table of maximum charges for each class for the GER, which was similar to that for other railway companies.
# This dates from around the 1890s as far as can be ascertained. (See for example:
# http://digital.slv.vic.gov.au/view/action/nmets.do?DOCCHOICE=771636.xml&dvs=1327967822965~470&locale=en_GB&search_terms=&adjacency=&usePid1=true&usePid2=true )
#
# Figures are all per ton per mile
#
# Class First 20 miles Next 30 miles Next 50 miles Remainder
# A 1.15d 0.90d 0.45d 0.40d
# B 1.40d 1.05d 0.80d 0.55d
# C 1.80d 1.50d 1.20d 0.70d
# I 2.20d 1.85d 1.40d 1.00d
# II 2.65d 2.30d 1.80d 1.50d
# III 3.10d 2.65d 2.00d 1.80d
# IV 3.60d 3.15d 2.50d 2.20d
# V 4.30d 3.70d 3.25d 2.50d
#
# Note that, for the time being, the original values are retained for backwards compatibility. They are over-written by the new system
# on the fare-stages branch.

### UNIQUE GOODS TYPES ###
# Passengers
# Class: passengers
obj=good
name=Passagiere
mapcolor=79
metric=
catg=0
#
#value=42
value=50
#
value[0]=60
to_distance[0]=16
value[1]=50
to_distance[1]=32
value[2]=47
to_distance[2]=0
speed_bonus=18
weight_per_unit=70
-----------------------
# Mail
# Class: mail
obj=good
name=Post
metric= bags
catg=0
#
#value=48
value=57
#
value[0]=69
to_distance[0]=16
value[1]=57
to_distance[1]=32
value[2]=54
to_distance[2]=0
speed_bonus=15
weight_per_unit=50
-----------------------
# Livestock
# Class: Livestock trated as class of own.
obj=good
name=livestock
metric=head
catg=0
#
#value=35
value=56
#
value[0]=67
to_distance[0]=16
value[1]=56
to_distance[1]=32
value[2]=52
to_distance[2]=0
speed_bonus=18
speed_bonus=2
weight_per_unit=120
------------------------------------------
# None
obj=good
name=None
metric=
catg=0
value=0
weight_per_unit=1
-----------------------
# Cars
# Class: not given, but treat as IV
obj=good
name=Autos
metric=cars
catg=0
#
#value=225
value=284
#
value[0]=324
to_distance[0]=32
value[1]=284
to_distance[1]=48
value[2]=225
to_distance[2]=80
value[3]=198
to_distance[3]=0
speed_bonus=15
weight_per_unit=1800
-----------------------
# Fish
# Class: not given, but treat as III
obj=good
name=FreshFish
metric=paletten
catg=0
#
value=133
#
value[0]=155
to_distance[0]=32
value[1]=133
to_distance[1]=48
value[2]=100
to_distance[2]=80
value[3]=90
to_distance[3]=0
speed_bonus=15
weight_per_unit=1000
metric=tonnen
-----------------------
### BULK GOODS ###
# Coal
# Class: A
obj=good
name=Kohle
metric=tonnen
catg=2
#
#value=35
value=45
#
value[0]=58
to_distance[0]=32
value[1]=45
to_distance[1]=48
value[2]=23
to_distance[2]=80
value[3]=20
to_distance[3]=240
value[4]=0
speed_bonus=0
weight_per_unit=1000
-----------------------
# Iron Ore
# Class: A
obj=good
name=Eisenerz
metric=tonnen
catg=2
#
#value=35
value=45
#
value[0]=58
to_distance[0]=32
value[1]=45
to_distance[1]=48
value[2]=23
to_distance[2]=80
value[3]=20
to_distance[3]=240
value[4]=0
speed_bonus=0
weight_per_unit=1000
-----------------------
# Wood Chip
# Class: not given, but treat as B
obj=good
name=woodchip
metric=tonnen
catg=2
#
#value=35
value=53
#
value[0]=70
to_distance[0]=32
value[1]=53
to_distance[1]=48
value[2]=40
to_distance[2]=80
value[3]=28
to_distance[3]=240
value[4]=0
speed_bonus=0
weight_per_unit=1000
-----------------------
# Stone
# Class: B
obj=good
name=Stone
metric=tonnen
catg=2
#
#value=35
value=53
#
value[0]=70
to_distance[0]=32
value[1]=53
to_distance[1]=48
value[2]=40
to_distance[2]=80
value[3]=28
to_distance[3]=240
value[4]=0
speed_bonus=0
weight_per_unit=1000
-----------------------
# Clay
# Class: B
obj=good
name=clay
metric=tonnen
catg=2
#
#value=35
value=53
#
value[0]=70
to_distance[0]=32
value[1]=53
to_distance[1]=48
value[2]=40
to_distance[2]=80
value[3]=28
to_distance[3]=240
value[4]=0
speed_bonus=0
weight_per_unit=1000
-----------------------
# Cement
# Not given, but treat as C
obj=good
name=Cement
metric=tonnen
catg=2
#
#value=35
value=75
#
value[0]=90
to_distance[0]=32
value[1]=75
to_distance[1]=48
value[2]=60
to_distance[2]=80
value[3]=35
to_distance[3]=0
speed_bonus=0
weight_per_unit=1000
-----------------------
obj=good
# Class: C
name=grain
metric=tonnen
catg=2
#
#value=35
value=75
#
value[0]=90
to_distance[0]=32
value[1]=75
to_distance[1]=48
value[2]=60
to_distance[2]=80
value[3]=35
to_distance[3]=0
speed_bonus=1
weight_per_unit=1000
-----------------------
### PIECE GOODS ###
# Subcategory - High Speedbonus
# Books
# Class: III
obj=good
name=Bucher
metric=paletten
catg=1
#
#value=51
value=133
#
value[0]=155
to_distance[0]=32
value[1]=133
to_distance[1]=48
value[2]=100
to_distance[2]=80
value[3]=90
to_distance[3]=0
speed_bonus=10
weight_per_unit=810
-----------------------
# Fruit
# Class: I
obj=good
name=fruit
metric=paletten
catg=1
#
#value=51
value=68
#
value[0]=80
to_distance[0]=32
value[1]=68
to_distance[1]=48
value[2]=51
to_distance[2]=80
value[3]=37
to_distance[3]=0
speed_bonus=10
weight_per_unit=730
-----------------------
# Vegetables
# Class: I
obj=good
name=vegetables
metric=paletten
catg=1
#
#value=51
value=65
#
value[0]=77
to_distance[0]=32
value[1]=65
to_distance[1]=48
value[2]=49
to_distance[2]=80
value[3]=35
to_distance[3]=0
speed_bonus=15
weight_per_unit=700
-----------------------
# Newspaper
# Class: not given, but treat as III
obj=good
name=newspaper
metric=paletten
catg=1
#
#value=51
value=105
#
value[0]=122
to_distance[0]=32
value[1]=105
to_distance[1]=48
value[2]=79
to_distance[2]=80
value[3]=71
to_distance[3]=0
speed_bonus=10
weight_per_unit=790
------------------------------------------
# Subcategory - Low Speedbonus
# Hardware
# Class: I
obj=good
name=hardware
metric=paletten
catg=1
#
#value=35
value=69
#
value[0]=83
to_distance[0]=32
value[1]=69
to_distance[1]=48
value[2]=53
to_distance[2]=80
value[3]=38
to_distance[3]=0
speed_bonus=3
weight_per_unit=750
-----------------------
# Furniture
# Class: not given, but treat as III
obj=good
name=Moebel
metric=paletten
catg=1
#
#value=50
value=53
#
value[0]=62
to_distance[0]=32
value[1]=53
to_distance[1]=48
value[2]=40
to_distance[2]=80
value[3]=36
to_distance[3]=0
speed_bonus=3
weight_per_unit=400
-----------------------
# Textiles
# Class: III
obj=good
name=textile
metric=paletten
catg=1
#
#value=35
value=57
#
value[0]=67
to_distance[0]=32
value[1]=57
to_distance[1]=48
value[2]=43
to_distance[2]=80
value[3]=39
to_distance[3]=0
speed_bonus=3
weight_per_unit=430
-----------------------
# Flour
# Class: C
obj=good
name=flour
metric=paletten
catg=1
#
#value=35
value=63
#
value[0]=76
to_distance[0]=32
value[1]=63
to_distance[1]=48
value[2]=
to_distance[2]=80
value[3]=
to_distance[3]=0
speed_bonus=3
weight_per_unit=840
-----------------------
# Beer
# Class: I
obj=good
name=beer
metric=barrels
catg=1
#
#value=35
value=74
#
value[0]=88
to_distance[0]=32
value[1]=74
to_distance[1]=48
value[2]=56
to_distance[2]=80
value[3]=40
to_distance[3]=0
speed_bonus=3
weight_per_unit=800
-----------------------
# Cider
# Class: not given, but treat as I
obj=good
name=cider
metric=barrels
catg=1
#
#value=35
value=73
#
value[0]=86
to_distance[0]=32
value[1]=73
to_distance[1]=48
value[2]=55
to_distance[2]=80
value[3]=39
to_distance[3]=0
speed_bonus=3
weight_per_unit=780
-----------------------
# Pharmaceuticals
# Class: not given, but treat as IV
obj=good
name=pharmaceuticals
metric=paletten
catg=1
#
#value=35
value=91
#
value[0]=104
to_distance[0]=32
value[1]=91
to_distance[1]=48
value[2]=73
to_distance[2]=80
value[3]=64
to_distance[3]=0
speed_bonus=3
weight_per_unit=580
-----------------------
# Plastic
# Class: not given, but treat as C
obj=good
name=Plastik
metric=paletten
catg=1
#
#value=35
value=38
#
value[0]=45
to_distance[0]=32
value[1]=38
to_distance[1]=48
value[2]=30
to_distance[2]=80
value[3]=18
to_distance[3]=0
speed_bonus=3
weight_per_unit=500
-----------------------
# Paper
# Class: I
obj=good
name=Papier
metric=paletten
catg=1
#
#value=35
value=74
#
value[0]=88
to_distance[0]=32
value[1]=74
to_distance[1]=48
value[2]=56
to_distance[2]=80
value[3]=40
to_distance[3]=0
speed_bonus=3
weight_per_unit=800
-----------------------
# Wool
# Class: not given, but treat as C
obj=good
name=wool
metric=sack
catg=1
#
#value=35
value=29
#
value[0]=34
to_distance[0]=32
value[1]=29
to_distance[1]=48
value[2]=23
to_distance[2]=80
value[3]=13
to_distance[3]=0
speed_bonus=3
weight_per_unit=380
-------------------------
# China
# Class: II
obj=good
name=china
metric=paletten
catg=1
#
#value=35
value=52
#
value[0]=60
to_distance[0]=32
value[1]=52
to_distance[1]=48
value[2]=41
to_distance[2]=80
value[3]=34
to_distance[3]=0
speed_bonus=3
weight_per_unit=450
------------------------------------------
# Bricks
# Class: B
obj=good
name=bricks
metric=paletten
catg=1
#
#value=35
value=43
#
value[0]=57
to_distance[0]=32
value[1]=43
to_distance[1]=48
value[2]=33
to_distance[2]=80
value[3]=23
to_distance[3]=0
speed_bonus=3
weight_per_unit=820
---------------------------------------
# Canned Food
Class: not given, but treat as IV
obj=good
name=canned_food
metric=paletten
catg=1
#
#value=35
value=129
#
value[0]=148
to_distance[0]=32
value[1]=129
to_distance[1]=48
value[2]=103
to_distance[2]=80
value[3]=90
to_distance[3]=0
speed_bonus=3
weight_per_unit=820
---------------------------------------
### LONG GOODS ###
# Steel
# Class C
obj=good
name=Stahl
metric=tonnen
catg=6
#
#value=35
value=75
#
value[0]=90
to_distance[0]=32
value[1]=75
to_distance[1]=48
value[2]=60
to_distance[2]=80
value[3]=35
to_distance[3]=0
speed_bonus=2
weight_per_unit=1000
-----------------------
# Planks
# Class: not given, but treat as I
obj=good
name=Bretter
metric=tonnen
catg=6
#
#value=35
value=93
#
value[0]=110
to_distance[0]=32
value[1]=93
to_distance[1]=48
value[2]=70
to_distance[2]=80
value[3]=50
to_distance[3]=0
speed_bonus=2
weight_per_unit=1000
-----------------------
### BULK LIQUIDS ###
#Crude Oil
# Class: I
obj=good
name=Oel
metric=m3
catg=3
#
#value=35
value=83
#
value[0]=99
to_distance[0]=32
value[1]=83
to_distance[1]=48
value[2]=63
to_distance[2]=80
value[3]=45
to_distance[3]=0
speed_bonus=0
weight_per_unit=900
-----------------------
# Petrol
# Class: I
obj=good
name=Gasoline
metric=m3
catg=3
#
#value=35
value=70
#
value[0]=83
to_distance[0]=32
value[1]=70
to_distance[1]=48
value[2]=53
to_distance[2]=80
value[3]=38
to_distance[3]=0
speed_bonus=0
weight_per_unit=750
-----------------------
# Fuel Oil
# Class: I
obj=good
name=FuelOil
metric=m3
catg=3
#
#value=35
value=93
#
value[0]=110
to_distance[0]=32
value[1]=93
to_distance[1]=48
value[2]=70
to_distance[2]=80
value[3]=50
to_distance[3]=0
speed_bonus=0
weight_per_unit=1000
-----------------------
# Chemicals
# Class: C
obj=good
name=Chemicals
metric=m3
catg=3
#
#value=35
value=66
#
value[0]=77
to_distance[0]=32
value[1]=66
to_distance[1]=48
value[2]=53
to_distance[2]=80
value[3]=31
to_distance[3]=0
speed_bonus=0
weight_per_unit=860
-----------------------
### COOLED GOODS ###
# Meat
# Class: II
obj=good
name=meat
metric=paletten
catg=4
#
#value=69
value=47
#
value[0]=54
to_distance[0]=32
value[1]=47
to_distance[1]=48
value[2]=37
to_distance[2]=80
value[3]=31
to_distance[3]=0
speed_bonus=15
weight_per_unit=410
-----------------------
# Fish
# Class: not given, but treat as II
obj=good
name=fish
metric=paletten
catg=4
#
#value=69
value=47
#
value[0]=54
to_distance[0]=32
value[1]=47
to_distance[1]=48
value[2]=37
to_distance[2]=80
value[3]=31
to_distance[3]=0
speed_bonus=15
speed_bonus=15
weight_per_unit=410
-----------------------
# Milk
# Class: not given, but treat as I
obj=good
name=milk
metric=paletten
catg=4
#
#value=69
value=89
#
value[0]=106
to_distance[0]=32
value[1]=89
to_distance[1]=48
value[2]=67
to_distance[2]=80
value[3]=48
to_distance[3]=0
speed_bonus=15
weight_per_unit=960
-----------------------
#===============================================================================
#
#                              EOF - goods-128.dat
#
#===============================================================================

Offline greenling

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Re: Unprofitable vehicles, even if full
« Reply #30 on: November 05, 2012, 05:20:46 PM »
Jamespetts
New parameters in dat files nothing bring,we need more testdrives, how we adjust the drivingcost per tile.

Offline jamespetts gb

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Re: Unprofitable vehicles, even if full
« Reply #31 on: November 05, 2012, 09:45:18 PM »
The per tile maintenance costs are adjusted in the same way in Experimental as Standard, by the runningcost=X parameter in each vehicles' .dat file, where X represents a value in Simucents.