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Modern rail vehicles for pak128.britain-ex

Started by jonbridg, July 13, 2020, 07:28:13 PM

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jonbridg


East Coast Main Line scene: A Hull Trains "Paragon" hurries north with a service to Beverley past an LNER "Azuma" bound for King's Cross.

Hi all, the purpose of this topic should be self-explanatory! I'll be posting my updates in here from now on (and they might not just be vehicles...)

PS: yes, the image is from an alternate universe where LNER has 10-car Azumas and the ECML has TVM signalling  :o

EDIT 24/07/20:
dat/png: https://github.com/jonbridg/simutrans-pak128.britain
.blends : https://github.com/jonbridg/Pak128.britain-blends

To Be Merged
dat+png+blends BR Class 222
simuconf   9 new livery definitions, etc.
simuconf   East Coast Trains (FirstGroup) livery definition missed from the above commit
dat+png   BR Class 68 (TPE livery) (no new translations)
dat+png   BR Mark5a coaches
dat+png   BR Class 397
dat+png BR 220 + 221
Blends    BR 220 Cross Country
dat Class 222 update

dat+png Class 801 LNER/re-render Virgin
Blends br-801-lner.blend

dat  Class 172/0 and 172/2: Insert retirement dates
dat  Class 397: revise costs and constraints

dat+png Class 801
dat Class 397
en.tab Additions and changes for 801 and 397

dat+png Class 800
en.tab BR-222Rear translation

dat Class 800 coupling constraints correction
dat Class 165 coupling constraints correction

dat+png Class 331
en.tab Class 331 translations

dat+png Class 196; dat Class 195; en.tab Class 195/196/197 translations
dat+png Class 769  dat+png Class 319  en.tab Class 769 translations
dat+png Class 141  dat+png Class 142  dat+png Class 144  dat Class 141-1  dat Class 142-1  dat Class 144-1  en.tab 141 and 144 translations

KneeOn

I love this, I will be following with interest.

Pak128.Britain has such a great group of developers but unfortunately they're also involved with extended development.

I do think the design principles set out work well, your train fits right in from the screenshot. I'm very curious what other plans you've got.

jamespetts

Thank you for this: this does look very interesting. Apologies for not having had the chance to look into these things recently - I have been somewhat preoccupied. We definitely do need some more modern trains, however, as I believe that we are only up to date to circa 2016, when the last round of modern trains were produced, so this is most helpful.
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jonbridg

Thanks both, I appreciate it. Yes, it's a fun time to be modelling with so much new rolling stock on order and I'm indebted to the previous pak developers for drawing so many of the newest designs, often before they'd even been built! Only the Stadler FLIRTS stand out as needing substantial work, I think the rest can be modelled fairly easily from existing stock.



Another new livery for the pak: TPE. It still needs adjustment. This livery is an experiment, partly using a UV map and texture painted within Blender itself, which I think could make adding new liveries (particularly the more intricate modern ones) a bit easier.

fam621

Quote from: jonbridg on July 13, 2020, 07:28:13 PM

East Coast Main Line scene: A Hull Trains "Paragon" hurries north with a service to Beverley past an LNER "Azuma" bound for King's Cross.

Hi all, the purpose of this topic should be self-explanatory! I'll be posting my updates in here from now on (and they might not just be vehicles...)

PS: yes, the image is from an alternate universe where LNER has 10-car Azumas and the ECML has TVM signalling  :o

Hull Trains Class 802's have small kitchens at the London end of each set

jonbridg

Thanks, yes, I forgot to blank out the end windows when I copied the rear unit. Sorted!

jonbridg

Still working away at TPE:


BR Class 397, or "Nova 2" in marketing language. The lighting seems to be off. I'm having some trouble with spacing between the carriages; does anyone one know if the .dat vehicle length only supports integers? I've the correct length value (12.6) and rounded-up (13) and can't see much difference. I know it's based on the number of pixels so suspect my query is true... 

Ranran(retired)

Quote from: jonbridg on July 17, 2020, 09:01:34 PMdoes anyone one know if the .dat vehicle length only supports integers?
Yes, it doesn't make sense to write decimals.
ひめしという日本人が開発者達の助言を無視して自分好みの機能をextendedに"強引に"実装し、
コードをぐちゃぐちゃにしてメンテナンスを困難にし(とりわけ道路と建物関連)、
挙句にバグを大量に埋め込み、それを知らんぷりして放置し(隠居するなどと言って)別のところに逃げ隠れて自分のフォーク(OTRP)は開発を続けている
その事実と彼の無責任さに日本人プレイヤーは目を向けるべき。らんらんはそれでやる気をなくした(´・ω・`)
他人の振り見て我が振り直せ。ひめしのようにならないために、らんらんが生み出したバグや問題は自分で修正しなくちゃね(´・ω・`)

fam621

Nice work pal, as I said this pakset has a HUGE gap in rail vehicles as there are no new trains after 2016 (apart from the IET fleet)

jonbridg



TransPennine Express' 'Nova' fleets, complete! From left to right:
Class 800/802 (Nova 1) - may be formed as allowed for Class 800 now.
Class 397 (Nova 2) - fixed 5-car unit, but two or more units can be coupled if required.
Mk5a push-pull set (Nova 3) - in reality a fixed 5-car set, but I've allowed extra standard-class carriages to be added as required. However, like the prototype all trains require a First Open and Driving Trailer, since only these have buffers.

Let me know what you think - the colors are a little darker now, hopefully not too much?


jamespetts

These are looking very good - thank you for your work on this. Modern trains are definitely a welcome addition. Your work on new Blender techniques is especially interesting.

Incidentally, you might want to look into whether to add retirement dates to existing trains which were the latest technology in 2016 but which have now been superseded by what you are now adding.
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jonbridg

#11


A busy scene somewhere in the North of England. A 2-car Class 195 trundles over the mainline as a 4-car Class 331 with a stopping service makes ready to depart. Passing on the fast lines is a Class 319 on its way to Liverpool while in the depot a newly-delivered Class 769 undergoes tests in diesel mode.

On the subject of retirement dates, I'll add it to my list. As it happens I'll need to modify a number of .dats to accept new trains so it makes sense to take at the same time.
Below: one of these new trains has long been retired, and the other should have been years ago!



Ah, Pacers. The marmite of British Railways! In the cream and green of the West Yorkshire Passenger Transport Executive is Class 141, the first production run of Pacers from 1984, so Pacer fans can have one a year earlier! You'd better be quick though, it becomes obsolete with the introduction of Class 142 in 1985. The class was retired in 1997.
Beside it is a Class 144, the only Pacer available in 3-car formation, in WYPTE red and cream. Driving cars will be available from 1985 and the middle car from 1987. The class is not due to be retired until the end of August 2020 thanks to an exemption from disability regulations to cover for late deliveries of Class 195 above, although many are now in store.

jamespetts

Excellent!

Is there a Github repository where you are uploading these (and the .blends for them, in case anyone else needs to add more liveries, etc. in future)?
Apologies if you have mentioned this before and I have missed it.
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fam621

Quote from: jonbridg on July 23, 2020, 06:59:29 PM


A busy scene somewhere in the North of England. A 2-car Class 195 trundles over the mainline as a 4-car Class 331 with a stopping service makes ready to depart. Passing on the fast lines is a Class 319 on its way to Liverpool while in the depot a newly-delivered Class 769 undergoes tests in diesel mode.

On the subject of retirement dates, I'll add it to my list. As it happens I'll need to modify a number of .dats to accept new trains so it makes sense to take at the same time.
Below: one of these new trains has long been retired, and the other should have been years ago!



Ah, Pacers. The marmite of British Railways! In the cream and green of the West Yorkshire Passenger Transport Executive is Class 141, the first production run of Pacers from 1984, so Pacer fans can have one a year earlier! You'd better be quick though, it becomes obsolete with the introduction of Class 142 in 1985. The class was retired in 1997.
Beside it is a Class 144, the only Pacer available in 3-car formation, in WYPTE red and cream. Driving cars will be available from 1985 and the middle car from 1987. The class is not due to be retired until the end of August 2020 thanks to an exemption from disability regulations to cover for late deliveries of Class 195 above, although many are now in store.

Not gonna lie, the front of the Civity's could do with some form of improvement but otherwise its great that new trains are been added

jonbridg

Quote from: thegamer7893 on July 23, 2020, 11:37:54 PMNot gonna lie, the front of the Civity's could do with some form of improvement but otherwise its great that new trains are been added

Yeah, they're not the most attractive of trains, but I'm sure people will prefer them over Pacers.

Quote from: jamespetts on July 23, 2020, 08:09:12 PM
Is there a Github repository where you are uploading these (and the .blends for them, in case anyone else needs to add more liveries, etc. in future)?
Apologies if you have mentioned this before and I have missed it.

Not yet, I hadn't decided whether to upload everything en masse (as in I believe the maintainers of pak128.britain did?) or piecemeal as each vehicle is completed.

Progress on dat files has lagged behind so far (making models is much more fun) so for now, I'll finish the Class 196 I'm working on and focus on completing the dat files, with a view to uploading everything at the end of the month. Thereafter I'll aim to upload vehicles as I complete each Class, before moving onto the next.

I've added links to my repositories in the original post.

fam621

Quote from: jonbridg on July 24, 2020, 01:09:08 PM
Yeah, they're not the most attractive of trains, but I'm sure people will prefer them over Pacers.

Of course they are attractive trains. Its just that the cab ends have been poorly represented in-game



Note: image is not mine

jonbridg



I beg to differ, it's a truly magnificent representation and quite unequaled in its accuracy...

I'm kidding.

Thanks to the alpha channel, the buffers do rather blend into the background. I can try changing the colour to compensate but can't promise any radical changes at present.

jamespetts

Excellent, thank you for the clarification.

I suggest that piecemeal would be better than in a large batch, as it is easier to check each individual vehicle for errors in that system. The only reason that the original vehicles were uploaded as a large batch long ago was that they had been completed before it was decided to upload them to a repository at all.
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jonbridg

In preparation for new vehicles I've been updating the livery definitions in simuconf and en.tab. These changes have now been pushed to my repo.

The figure in brackets is the number of liveries added with each scheme.

Added livery schemes for TransPennine, Wales & Borders (4),  Bristol & SW (Wessex Trains, metrobus), Caledonian Sleeper (Serco), Merseytravel (4), Essex Thameside (3, c2c), WCML Franchise (Avanti), Tyne & Wear (4) and Thameslink GN (5, includes wagn)

New livery definitions under existing schemes are LNER, East Coast Trains (2021), West Midlands Network, TfL Rail and Overground (2018 revision), and a name change for the London-Midland livery scheme in en.tab - to London & Midlands - to enable LNwR and Silverlink without starting a new livery scheme.

I've also corrected what looked like an error in the Lynton & Barnstaple livery: one entry carried the number of the livery scheme preceding it.


jamespetts

Quote from: jonbridg on July 26, 2020, 04:32:03 PM
In preparation for new vehicles I've been updating the livery definitions in simuconf and en.tab. These changes have now been pushed to my repo.

The figure in brackets is the number of liveries added with each scheme.

Added livery schemes for TransPennine, Wales & Borders (4),  Bristol & SW (Wessex Trains, metrobus), Caledonian Sleeper (Serco), Merseytravel (4), Essex Thameside (3, c2c), WCML Franchise (Avanti), Tyne & Wear (4) and Thameslink GN (5, includes wagn)

New livery definitions under existing schemes are LNER, East Coast Trains (2021), West Midlands Network, TfL Rail and Overground (2018 revision), and a name change for the London-Midland livery scheme in en.tab - to London & Midlands - to enable LNwR and Silverlink without starting a new livery scheme.

I've also corrected what looked like an error in the Lynton & Barnstaple livery: one entry carried the number of the livery scheme preceding it.

Excellent, thank you: now incorporated.
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kierongreen

Quote from: thegamer7893 on July 26, 2020, 09:50:23 PM
OCD triggered xD


That depends on which side it is as the toilet will be on one with a passageway on the other in the centre carriage that doesn't have a pantograph - see image at https://www.communityraillancashire.co.uk/news/class-769-driver-training/ for the other side for example.

fam621

Quote from: kierongreen on July 27, 2020, 06:48:34 PM
That depends on which side it is as the toilet will be on one with a passageway on the other in the centre carriage that doesn't have a pantograph - see image at https://www.communityraillancashire.co.uk/news/class-769-driver-training/ for the other side for example.

As seen in the picture below, the toilet side is corrected marked on the class 319s non-motor coach whereas on the class 769 it is incorrectly marked (as they are both the same train with the class 769s being the dual-mode versions)


kierongreen

Quote from: thegamer7893 on July 27, 2020, 07:08:14 PM
As seen in the picture below, the toilet side is corrected marked on the class 319s non-motor coach whereas on the class 769 it is incorrectly marked (as they are both the same train with the class 769s being the dual-mode versions)


Zooming in the N on the northern logos is at the wrong end of 'northern' on certain carriages also.... I wonder how many of these details would be picked up in-game, the overall impression of the new graphics is very nice I'd say!

jonbridg

The extra toilet window is indeed an error common to both Class 319/769 and has been corrected.



A class 196 in West Midlands Railway livery, fresh from the workshop. Like classes 195, 331 and 397, this is a CivityUK product from CAF. The very similar class 197 has been ordered by Transport for Wales but it's low priority until better info on it becomes available.

Kieron, well-spotted - I hoped no-one would notice that one! I mapped both sides of the vehicles with the same texture to save time. I'll take a look at re-mapping it when I'm finished with the dats.


fam621

Quote from: jonbridg on July 27, 2020, 11:12:02 PM


Brilliant work! Now hopefully we can start to fill in a massive gap in rail vehicles and make my gamesaves more enjoyable ;)

kierongreen

Quote from: jonbridg on July 27, 2020, 11:12:02 PM
Kieron, well-spotted - I hoped no-one would notice that one! I mapped both sides of the vehicles with the same texture to save time. I'll take a look at re-mapping it when I'm finished with the dats.
I'm sure if people look back at my original graphics plenty of similar errors would be found! Good work with all the new vehicles :)

jamespetts

Quote from: jonbridg on July 27, 2020, 11:12:02 PM
The extra toilet window is indeed an error common to both Class 319/769 and has been corrected.



A class 196 in West Midlands Railway livery, fresh from the workshop. Like classes 195, 331 and 397, this is a CivityUK product from CAF. The very similar class 197 has been ordered by Transport for Wales but it's low priority until better info on it becomes available.

Kieron, well-spotted - I hoped no-one would notice that one! I mapped both sides of the vehicles with the same texture to save time. I'll take a look at re-mapping it when I'm finished with the dats.



Looking splendid! It is lovely to see new vehicles being produced.
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jonbridg

Thanks, it's great to hear that people like what they see. I've put modelling on hold for now while I put my efforts into releasing the vehicles I've done so far. Class 800 will be first as they require least work.

On this subject, is there any need for Class 800/802 to have separate dats?  Until fuel range and bi-mode are implemented there's little difference between them in Simutrans at present.

I've been putting the dat files together with the help of Freakh and Vladki's useful explanations of tractive/brake force (and running costs, when I get around to it) from a short while ago and tested them against existing vehicles, which has raised a few interesting points.

I notice the power on some classes is lower than I'd expect. A search reveals this was a point raised by Vladki with regard to class 801, but I can't see why this wasn't implemented; was there a particular reason that might be pertinent to other vehicles? Similarly the Desiro UK units which have a rated power of 1000kw per motor coach in reality; 750kw in Simutrans. Was this to compensate for the tractive effort of 100kn per car? I've seen at least one article which quotes this figure (a Deutsche Bahn Class 460, I think), which suggests it is correct, although it does seem high in comparison to the recently re-calibrated Electrostars.

Vladki

I was about to fiddle with 801 (not only power but also constraints and vehicle selection (powered/unpowered and classes) but got distracted by acceleration patch.

Anyway I always put the power to the same values as found in specs. But then all electric vehicles have gear 0.75. It may not be exact but at least consistent with other vehicles. Diesel vehicles have gear 0.5 (James may explain more why he chose these).

As tractive effort is rarely found in specs, but maximum acceleration sometimes is. So I used acceleration, weight and gear to calculate tractive force, to get approximately same acceleration as in real world. I have omitted friction. I plan to recalculate some to see how big is the error and eventually fix the trams and emus I did recently.

jamespetts

jonbridg - you note that the power on some of the classes is lower than you would expect. The power is, wherever the data are available, based on the actual data for the vehicles in question. Have you found any instances where this is not so?
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Mariculous

Quote from: jonbridg on July 29, 2020, 12:47:34 AMWas this to compensate for the tractive effort of 100kn per car?
There are quite a lot vehicles with wrong technical data.
That's not for a specific purpose. If you notice such and feel confident to provide the correct data, including sources, this would be appreciated.
Some care needs to be taken as sometimes different sources are inconsistent. Especially in modern times, there seems to be an increasingly huge difference in between one-hour-power, permanent-power and short-time-power.

For example, a German BR class 462 (Siemens Desiro HC) has a short-time power of 6mW (750 kW per engine) but only 4 kW one-hour-power and 3290 kW permanent power.
The very high short-time power allows that train to accelerate its 4 cars to their maximum speed of 160 km/h quite quickly, but as it cannot run that power permanently, it's not good in climbing long slopes or pulling heavy trains.
Generally, it's a bad idea to compare different types of Desiros. Siemens simply called all of their local service trains "Desiro" for some time, though these differ quite a lot.

Same goes for any other train class. Even within the same train family, specs can be quite different (e.g. see German ICE4, which was originally ordedered in a 230, 249 and a 250 km/h version, whilst all these are technically quite identical and will get a software update (including all the complicated admission procedures) to run at 265 km/h.

jonbridg

Thanks for the replies. I'm sorry, it would've made more sense if I'd included sources the first time!
As regards Class 801 (paraphrased from another topic):

Quote from: Vladki on May 24, 2020, 10:39:29 PM
I have got to try the class 801 (800) and found some discrepancies. (and this old thread).
Diesel engine has correct power 700 kW, but electric has 4x 226 = 904 kW, according to http://www.hitachi.com/rev/pdf/2014/r2014_10_105.pdf

Power and weight is also here (for the whole train). Power agrees with the above.

https://web.archive.org/web/20181005071852/https://www.railengineer.uk/wp-content/uploads/2017/10/Table-1-Hitachi-800-802-orders-V3-Avenir.pdf
As regards Desiro UK:
There is a good deal of data on Class 350/1 here https://www.angeltrains.co.uk/Products-Services/Regional-Passenger-Trains/17
Data is also available on this site for 350/3/4 and 360.

class 380: http://www.railway-centre.com/class-380.html
class 444: https://sremg.org.uk/gallery/class444_01.html

My conclusions are that all 5 Desiro UK classes use 250kw-rated 1TB2016-0GB02 traction motors, and in the same configuration of 2 per powered bogie. This gives 4x250=1000kw per motor vehicle.

I have since found this article which includes data on power-at-rail and acceleration for some units:
https://web.archive.org/web/20111006082417/http://www.mobility.siemens.com/en/data/pdf/ts_tr/02_reference_brochure_trains.pdf

Compare the figures for 350/1 with those given by Angel Trains. Siemens quotes power-at-wheel of 1500kw (under DC) for the whole train, or 750kw per motor vehicle, which is the figure given in the dat file.

From my limited understanding (I haven't got round to looking at the physics engine, and it's been a while since I did A-level physics!) I would say that power-at-wheel = rated power * gear?

jamespetts

Thank you for that; which of the data do you believe are incorrect? If you find any units with incorrect data, do feel free to correct them, providing that the corrections are themselves based on reliable sources.

As to "gear", this is unfortunate terminology and a remanent of Simutrans Standard of old; all that it does is multiply the power and tractive force by the factor. The English translation texts have this as "power output ratio" to make it clear that this has nothing to do with gearing. It is used to allow the use of real data (which do not take into account transmission losses) to calibrate the physics of powered vehicles where the engine is separate from the vehicle itself (i.e., everything other than steam locomotives) and where the data are all for the engine power as distinct from the locomotive power, as they inevitably are.
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jonbridg

I'd like to increase the power of the Desiro UK units as I believe the figure used in the dat file is for power-at-rail and thus already accounts for losses that would otherwise be applied using 'gear'; but it's not high priority. It was something I picked up on whilst testing the electric Civity units, whose specifications I initially adapted from Class 380 (which has a similar quoted max. acceleration) until I found more reliable information.

With the new liveries for 801 requiring a dat update anyway I've increased the power to 904kw-per-motor-vehicle and converted the trailer composite to a motor composite, as there are no trailer composites in reality. I've also added a motor first for 9-car trains.

Vladki, what were your ideas on 800/801 constraints? If you like I could add them at the same time as the liveries.