God Save the King!

[RealAmerican1776]

As a New England Yankee, I'm actually fascinated by British history and culture, so watching the Coronation of King Charles III, it was really neat to see and I would like your comments and opinions on the coronation.

For me, I understand that the monarchy isn't doing well, the British people see the monarchy as... out dated and out of touch with modern society. The other day I was watching CBS and they were talking about commonwealth countries like Australia and New Zealand becoming Republics. In my opinion, we might very well see a British Republic in my lifetime. Thoughts? Comments?

[Matthew]

As a New England Yankee, I'm actually fascinated by British history and culture, so watching the Coronation of King Charles III, it was really neat to see and I would like your comments and opinions on the coronation.

I watched all of the coronation; I studied politics and theology at university so a ceremony where the two meet was absolutely in my area of interest.

I agreed with the main messages sent out by the ceremony:

• your relationship to God is more important that being King or anything else, and likewise being part of the worldwide family of the church is more important than what country you're in
• that it is God who rules the world and being a leader means serving with justice and mercy according to his standards and with his help.
• that the UK and the Commonwealth have a variety of cultures and languages and we can praise God in and for all of them
• when you lead a state, you don't start with a blank slate but inherit a great deal from the past, and in the case of the UK, a great deal of wealth from the past
• the ceremonial leader of the UK and the Commonwealth is not the political leader, so political power is not the most important thing
• being loyal to your nation's leaders and respecting the government are things to be celebrated

I disagreed with or disliked many details in today's service, mainly where things were changed this time in ways that I think contradicted these messages. For example, the King removed most of the traditional ceremony where people kneel down to him in homage; I would have preferred to keep it in and make more of the politicians kneel to keep them humble. The authorities also changed the Coronation Oath to remove the mentions of Australia, New Zealand, Papua New Guinea and the other Commonwealth Realms because they thought it was colonialist. I disagree both because the Oath is written in law (the government should obey the law!) and because I think I think most Australians etc. would want their King to mention them during the service. Being King of Australia or the Solomon Islands is nothing to be ashamed of; it should have been celebrated! I also think it was bizarre to ask a Hindu to do the Bible reading; the appropriate place to involve the Prime Minister was the act of homage.

However, many (most?) of these detailed changes were introduced by the King himself. And that's part and parcel of the way monarchy works: the King is from the 1960s hippy generation so we got a service with a very Boomer feel. He can set the tone of national life in that way (though that's about the limit of his power).

And so many of the historic elements in the service spoke those messages very powerfully, above all seeing the King in his undershirt after the anointing, stripped of his finery because he needed help from God.

For me, I understand that the monarchy isn't doing well, the British people see the monarchy as... out dated and out of touch with modern society. The other day I was watching CBS and they were talking about commonwealth countries like Australia and New Zealand becoming Republics. In my opinion, we might very well see a British Republic in my lifetime. Thoughts? Comments?

The situation is very different in the UK and Australia/New Zealand.

Australia had a referendum on becoming a republic at the Millennium and 40% of the people (voting is compulsory) voted for it. In New Zealand it's clear that the Labour party are overwhelmingly in favour of a republic. It was very noticeable how last year that some newscasters referred to the death of "the British Queen", even though she was the Queen of Australia and New Zealand. There are also ardent monarchists but it wouldn't be a huge surprise if either became a republic in the next few years.

In the UK, if you mention "republicans" to people, even people who are interested in politics, you will usually be understood as talking about supporters of a republic of Ireland, not abolishing the British monarchy. The main anti-monarchy group held a protest today, on what should have been their biggest opportunity in decades, and they couldn't even get a thousand people. 52 protestors were arrested (which was wrong and I suspect when it goes to court the judges will be very critical), but the fact you could fit all the activists into a double-decker bus says a lot. Very few British politicians would ever mention that they support a republic because it won't win you votes and might lose some. I am not a huge fan of King Charles personally, but he will have to do something staggeringly awful for a British republic to happen, and the Prince of Wales is a lot more popular. It's much more likely that the whole UK would break up than became a republic.

A bit of colour to show how this works out in practice. Several houses on my estate are displaying Union Flags or have bunting up.  My mother is in her element: she was glued to the TV for the whole thing and this evening has watched the BBC's highlights and then gone back to re-watch it on video ("because their highlights aren't always my highlights"). And she has shared her enthusiasm, cooking Coronation chicken and Coronation quiche for the family this weekend, and Coronation cake for her Bible study group. My father is a republican but still watched the whole thing with her. My siblings watched it too; my brother and sister-in-law travelled to Westminster to join the crowds (my sister-in-law wearing her Union Flag facepaint even though she isn't actually British yet!) and have been enthusiastic on social media. My youngest sister (about 50, for context!) thought it was "ace". My 5-year old great-niece was on social media early this morning jumping and down with excitement. But having said all that, there'd be more decorations, more special cooking, and more small-child enthusiasm over any Christmas.

[RealAmerican1776]

In the UK, if you mention "republicans" to people, even people who are interested in politics, you will usually be understood as talking about supporters of a republic of Ireland, not abolishing the British monarchy.

Interesting. I always thought that being a Republican in Britain DID mean abolishing the monarchy. But watching, I did see where our Presidential inaugurations came from, I saw similarities like the prayer (in Presidential inaugurations, the president-elect gets a pastor or priest from his or her church), the oath, the parade, it really was like watching an inauguration... just more pomp and pageantry and it was VERY British.

[RealAmerican1776]

I am not a huge fan of King Charles personally

Unfortunately your guy is there for life (I don't expect him to be on the throne for very long, he's old as dirt already) but over here if you don't like the President, you can just wait for four years and get him out! You guys can't do that.

[RealAmerican1776]

I disagreed with or disliked many details in today's service, mainly where things were changed this time in ways that I think contradicted these messages. For example, the King removed most of the traditional ceremony where people kneel down to him in homage; I would have preferred to keep it in and make more of the politicians kneel to keep them humble.

Agreed. I watched it on ABC and when they were doing the mass, they had what looked like a Southern Baptist group that was all black. Two of the ABC folks were black and they ate it up. They were ready to jump for joy because they had an all black group. But from what I understand, that's not why they were there! They were there because they were Baptists, not because they were black. But the ABC folks were thrilled because they were black. It wasn't right.

[Matthew]

Interesting. I always thought that being a Republican in Britain DID mean abolishing the monarchy. But watching, I did see where our Presidential inaugurations came from, I saw similarities like the prayer (in Presidential inaugurations, the president-elect gets a pastor or priest from his or her church), the oath, the parade, it really was like watching an inauguration... just more pomp and pageantry and it was VERY British.

Yes, there are similarities, because the British monarchy was the main model for the US presidency.

In fact, if you think about it, today it's actually the US that's a monarchy. The US constitution gives all executive power to *one* man or woman, the President, so it's mono-archy, rule by one. But the British constitution distributes executive power among the Cabinet as a whole (the King no longer has any power), so politically it's not a monarchy any more.

[isidoro]

The bad thing about monarchy is that it's irrational.  You can't trust the genes to choose the right person to do the work a king (whatever that work is) must do nowadays.

The good thing about monarchy is that it's irrational.  Once you keep reason aside, there are no arguments or fights (for power or free lodgings or food or privileges).  And you feel safe and warm in tradition.

Once said that, I don't like my money to go to people whose only merit is being born.  There should be free market for the kings.  Each one getting money from their supporters and competing like Coca-Cola and Pepsi do.

[RealAmerican1776]

The bad thing about monarchy is that it's irrational.  You can't trust the genes to choose the right person to do the work a king (whatever that work is) must do nowadays.

A great example: George III, the king during the American Revolution. If I remember my history correctly, wasn't he literally diagnosed with insanity? I mean, we haven't had good president's either. Andrew Jackson was a mean, mean person, Richard Nixon was a criminal, Jimmy Carter was a loser, and many people still blame George Bush for 9/11.