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Question regarding the license

Started by Ters, May 27, 2012, 12:50:18 PM

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Ters

I've been trying to read the license for the Simutrans source code, and while it covers small and large modifications to the source code, I can't figure out the rules for using small snippets from the source code in a different product. Is that forbidden?

Dwachs

Tbh, I do not understand which clause of the license is related to your wish at all  :question:
Parsley, sage, rosemary, and maggikraut.

greenling

Dwachs
Ters wand be build a Addon for the Simutrans.exe!
Opening hours 20:00 - 23:00
(In Night from friday on saturday and saturday on sunday it possibly that i be keep longer in Forum.)
I am The Assistant from Pakfilearcheologist!
Working on a big Problem!

Ters

No, not an add-on, but a tool. It's a stand-alone application.

greenling

Ters
The Programm that you devlop what be it make?
Opening hours 20:00 - 23:00
(In Night from friday on saturday and saturday on sunday it possibly that i be keep longer in Forum.)
I am The Assistant from Pakfilearcheologist!
Working on a big Problem!

Ters

Quote from: greenling on May 27, 2012, 05:51:46 PM
The Programm that you devlop what be it make?

Sorry, but I don't understand that question.

prissi

YOu could use parts, but you must publish those code afterwards. You must not charge money (for those code parts) and you must release it with artistic licence / GPL / or similar

Ters

I was expecting that, and thinking about using the exact same license as Simutrans. I was more concerned about how much of the specific notices. What must be kept in the license preamble, and do those files that contain the not quire verbatim copied snippets need notices? The section about translations, images, fonts, music and such is rather irrelevant. Though it reads images, config files, and at a later time possibly translations, those will not be bundled.

So far, the parts I've more or less copied are the pak loading (very loosely, as the IO architecture and destination classes are different), core speed bonus calculations (almost verbatim, except all variables and methods have other names), and one color table along with parts of another (number elements directly ctrl+c-ed).

prissi

I think there are no limitations on changes inside the files. A comment where to find the original may be enough.

VS

Why is the license a problem anyway? I take it you are creating some utility for Simutrans... or no?

My projects... Tools for messing with Simutrans graphics. Graphic archive - templates and some other stuff for painters. Development logs for most recent information on what is going on. And of course pak128!

Ters

Quote from: prissi on May 27, 2012, 08:35:34 PM
I think there are no limitations on changes inside the files. A comment where to find the original may be enough.
But that's the thing. No files are changed, all files are new. For the files containing the besch classes there is a one-to-one, or rather two-to-one as I have made the tool in Java, relationship between the Simutrans source code and my tool's source code. The files are however rewritten from scratch, though I did look at the Simutrans source code to make sure I got all the fields over with the possibly correct type. For the reader classes, there is also a two-to-one relationship for the files, but there is also a one-to-one relationship between the lines due to the file format, though only the two lines for decoding version number look alike. Other stuff is shoveled into unrelated files alltogether.

I'll probably leave comments like "this formula is from simvehikel.cc". In that particular case, I already have, but maybe I should add revision number too.
Quote from: VS on May 27, 2012, 08:59:32 PM
Why is the license a problem anyway? I take it you are creating some utility for Simutrans... or no?
I don't want accusation that this contains stolen code in some way, or that I claim other people's work as mine. And while it's only useful for Simutrans users, it is more distinct from Simutrans than a tool like makeobj. Makeobj is built from the same source code. My tool isn't as it's written in a different language, both in terms of C++/Java and German/English. I feel that it therefore needs to be licensed separately. I'll also need to take a look over the licenses for the Java libraries I have used.

VS


My projects... Tools for messing with Simutrans graphics. Graphic archive - templates and some other stuff for painters. Development logs for most recent information on what is going on. And of course pak128!

Ters

It looks like making a binary distribution will be too much trouble. I either have to include ten notices and provide source code for at least two libraries (even though I haven't touched the source myself), or tell users to go hunt down these ten jar files and put them in the right place themselves.

If anyone is curious enough, and willing and capable of installing a JDK and Gradle, I could provide the source code. The build system (Gradle) will then fetch the dependencies from the Internet automatically. I will not provide any assistance in installing and setting up the JDK and/or Gradle.

sdog

Quote from: Ters on May 27, 2012, 09:19:49 PM
But that's the thing. No files are changed, all files are new. For the files containing the besch classes there is a one-to-one, or rather two-to-one as I have made the tool in Java, relationship between the Simutrans source code and my tool's source code. The files are however rewritten from scratch, though I did look at the Simutrans source code to make sure I got all the fields over with the possibly correct type. For the reader classes, there is also a two-to-one relationship for the files, but there is also a one-to-one relationship between the lines due to the file format, though only the two lines for decoding version number look alike. Other stuff is shoveled into unrelated files alltogether.
(highlighted by me)

but then there is no problem at all. Looking at the code and re-coding it is not a copyright infringement. In particular an equation  (i'm refering to "this formula is from simvehikel.cc") can't be copyrighted. At worst a patent could privilege someone to use it exclusively. (american law, that got broken by incompetent judges [oracle, google api] doesn't apply here anyways)

Ters

What about the parts that are ctrl+c-ed, like the color tables?

kierongreen

I'd put a comment stating that that section has been copied from simutrans with a link to the website and show the source file they were taken from.

eg:

/* colour table copied from simcolor.h, part of the simutrans project source code. Source code originally
   released under the artistic licence and available from http://sourceforge.net/projects/simutrans/
*/